Saxophone Forum


by JaZzer
(25 posts)
17 years ago

Ref 54 compared to '55 Mark VI, or new neck for VI?

I'm currently playing on a 60,000 s/n Mark VI, which at some point in the early 70's was factory relacquered (barely any metal was removed, but still relaquered). Like all VI's it has that one stuffy note, being the middle C (most VI's I've played have had a stuffy Bb). I recently talked with Peter Ponzol, and he showed me his preffered tenor, and blew on it with the original neck. He then put on one of his own hand made necks, and the difference was quite obvious, even to the least discerning ear. I was wondering if I should take some time to try some ref 54's and compare them to my VI, or perhaps just get a new neck for my VI. I'm a firm believer than the neck has a huge impact on the player), however, if a ref 54 is particulary better than my VI, I should be able to actually profit by switching to the ref 54 after selling my VI, and then getting better ergonomics, intonation, and perhaps the rest that these new "vintage" ref's have to offer. Ofcourse, that's after having it set up by my repairman (most new horns just don't feel right unless they're adjusted by your preffered repairman). Anywho, I'd just like anyone's opinion on this matter, and perhaps the characteristics of these ref. 54's. I've heard they're modeled after a 70,000 mark vi alto bought in NY, and they're supposedly consistent in production. My VI has a slightly spread sound, lying on the darker side, but with more edge than other VI's around the same run. So I'd like to know how they compare (in general ofcourse) or if maybe trying out some necks on my VI would be a wiser (investment wise, and perhaps if the new neck may dramatically improve the VI) choice than looking at a new horn altogether. Any input would be greatly appreciated.

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  1. by Donnie The B
    (282 posts)

    17 years ago

    Re: Ref 54 compared to '55 Mark VI, or new neck for VI?

    Jazzer- I suppose if a neck had a different bore or was made of really hard (bright) or really soft (dark) brass that a different neck could change the sound. I have a 1961 Mark VI tenor myself. I don't really notice the stuffy C, although I know Steve Goodson designed an extra vent in his new horns to deal with that problem. Just remember if you decide to go with a new horn (I prefer the Reference 36 to the 54) that you'll never be likely to own a great early Mark VI again! You won't be able to stand to pay for it. Consider this: You might well find a lightly used Reference model (or a Series III or whatever) for half the cost of a new one. I turned down a Ref 36 at $2200 which was nearly as good as new. (Just didn't have the extra money). Then you might keep your old Selmer as well? Incidently, you were kind of asking us to tell you if the Ref 54 is better than your old Mark VI. That would be for you to determine. Surely you could find a store to let you try some horns. Who knows - if you decide to go new, you might go German or Japanese instead of French! - - - - - Good Luck.

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  2. by Azsax
    (47 posts)

    17 years ago

    Re: Ref 54 compared to '55 Mark VI, or new neck for VI?

    I tried one of the copper selmer necks and I hated it. The neck is one of the largest keys to having a great sounding horn.Go ahead and try as many as you can.

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    1. by JaZzer
      (25 posts)

      17 years ago

      Re: Ref 54 compared to '55 Mark VI, or new neck for VI?

      Indeed. I noticed a mistake in my original post. I intended to say that I'm a firm believer in necks having a huge impact on a player's sound. As to the Ref being better than a VI, there's always gonna be those VI's that make better lamps than anything, however, I was wondering if a ref is even worth looking at. Depending on the zinc and copper input in the neck, it'll have a brighter or darker sound, but I'm trying to pay more attention to bore size. I have to measure the bore size of my neck, and then see what the effects of the different bore sizes have on sound. If anyone has any info on this, it'd help a lot. Are there any other aftermarket necks worth looking at other than ponzols, and places you can find mark vi alto necks for sale? Thanks.~

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      1. by Mactenor
        (102 posts)

        17 years ago

        Re: Ref 54 compared to '55 Mark VI, or new neck for VI?

        Phil Barone offers a very high quality neck.

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