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by Tenorlysaxyjazzguy
(23 posts)
19 years ago

1923 Buescher True Tone

I was wondering about the Buescher true tone- is it even a professional horn? I havent heard much about them and I was curious about how good they were quality wise! Does anyone know? Thanks!

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  2. by sax_maniac
    (984 posts)
    19 years ago

    Re: 1923 Buescher True Tone

    True Tones were professional horns in their time. One that is in good repair would be construed as professional by modern standards - certainly the potential for "professional sound", though the keywork would be outdated compared to modern designs (not that it can't be gotten used to) - so it would have a somewhat different feel than, say, a new Yamaha for example. Is there one in a local shop or are you cruising eBay?

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    1. by Renate
      (6 posts)
      19 years ago

      Re: 1923 Buescher True Tone

      HI, could someone tell me whether any Buescher 1925 would be a good alto sax (I have an offer for one with new pads and springs for 320 pounds). Also what is the difference between Elkhart Indiana and other Elkharts? Is Conn also a name for Buescher or Elkhart? All a bit confusing. Thanks, Renate.

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      1. by definition
        (963 posts)
        19 years ago

        Re: 1923 Buescher True Tone

        Conn and Buescher are seeperate companies, and It just happens that both(as well as other companies) had there plants in Elkhart, Indiana USA for a number of years. Also, although they are different companies, the Conns and Bueschers from that era you mentioned are very similar. But that is becuase the Buescher company was started by Mr Buescher after he quit working for Conn! And also, 320 pounds is a great price if it is in good shape an repair.

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      2. by connsaxman_jim
        (2336 posts)
        19 years ago

        Re: 1923 Buescher True Tone

        A 1925 Buescher would be a True Tone model also. The true tone's were made up until 1930. Although the action is a little antique, these horns did play very well, and had probably the best intonation of any saxophones of their time. As Definition said, Conn, Buescher and Martin were all made in Elkhart, Indiana. To add to the confusion, both Buescher and Conn built a saxophone together called the "Elkhart: which was built in Elkhart, Indiana from the early 1920's through the early 1930's. Buescher was started by Gus Buescher after he quit working for Conn around 1915 to start his own company. Gus Buescher actually designed the first Conn saxophones. 320 pounds sounds like a pretty good price for a True Tone in good condition. Good Luck, Jim

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        1. by Renate
          (6 posts)
          19 years ago

          Re: 1923 Buescher True Tone

          HI again, thanks for the valuable info. I have found out that the sax offered is not a true tone, just an ordinary Buescher1925. So probably worth much less, although supposed to be in v.good condition. What do you guys think? I bought a silver vintage one saying Elkhart Indiana and showing the picture of an indian engraved! Anyone any idea when that might have been built and what it is worth. I will have to get it serviced. Thanks, R.

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      3. by Tenorlysaxyjazzguy
        (23 posts)
        19 years ago

        Re: 1923 Buescher True Tone

        I am cruising eBay What are the best vintage horns in your opinion? Which do you think have the best sound for jazz? Thanks for helping me out!

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        1. by definition
          (963 posts)
          19 years ago

          Re: 1923 Buescher True Tone

          My FAVORITE vintage horn are the King Super 20s. In a close second is are Conn 10Ms, the the Beuscher Aristocrat Big B, and Top hat and cane, "The Martin", and King Zepphyrs all in close to behind. I have a freind playin on a True tone alto. The sound is oh so sweet! As for the best horn ffor jazz, I will say this: ANY horn is the best for jazz; its what the player does with the horn that makes it good for jazz/legit/etc. Take a look at parker, he bought/sold/traded horns like other people change there underwear. Pick a horn that plays well for you, and learn it inside and out!

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        2. by definition
          (963 posts)
          19 years ago

          Re: 1923 Buescher True Tone

          My FAVORITE vintage horn are the King Super 20s. In a close second is are Conn 10Ms, the the Beuscher Aristocrat Big B, and Top hat and cane, "The Martin", and King Zepphyrs all in close to behind. I have a freind playin on a True tone alto. The sound is oh so sweet! As for the best horn ffor jazz, I will say this: ANY horn is the best for jazz; its what the player does with the horn that makes it good for jazz/legit/etc. Take a look at parker, he bought/sold/traded horns like other people change there underwear. Pick a horn that plays well for you, and learn it inside and out!

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          1. by Tenorlysaxyjazzguy
            (23 posts)
            19 years ago

            Re: 1923 Buescher True Tone

            Thanks for your advice, I saw a vintage Martin that I liked as well. What about the Buescher 400? There are so many good looking vintage horns out there that I am having a very hard time picking!

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          2. by definition
            (963 posts)
            19 years ago

            Re: 1923 Buescher True Tone

            the top hat and cane is a 400; and argueably the best of the 400s

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          3. by Tenorlysaxyjazzguy
            (23 posts)
            19 years ago

            Re: 1923 Buescher True Tone

            How much would you think a perfect 1960's Buescher 400 Tenor Saxophone-this thing doesn't have one dent and looks brand new! Would it be worth $1,000 or more? Thanks again for your help!

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          4. by connsaxman_jim
            (2336 posts)
            19 years ago

            Re: 1923 Buescher True Tone

            That depends on rather it's pre or post Selmer buy-out (1963) The pre-Selmer horns are worth considerably more and were better horns.

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          5. by definition
            (963 posts)
            19 years ago

            Re: 1923 Buescher True Tone

            does it have the "Buescher 400" engraved on the horn? or is it raised on the bell?

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          6. by Tenorlysaxyjazzguy
            (23 posts)
            19 years ago

            Re: 1923 Buescher True Tone

            Uh...It says "Buescher 400" kinda on the side of the bell. The serial # is 420XXX What year is that?

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          7. by definition
            (963 posts)
            19 years ago

            Re: 1923 Buescher True Tone

            the Selmer Buyout was around sn 381XXX. You will be lucky to get around $800 - $900. Check out this link for more info on the 400s: www.saxpics.com/buescher/docs/400.htm

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          8. by Tenorlysaxyjazzguy
            (23 posts)
            19 years ago

            Re: 1923 Buescher True Tone

            Oh... so the buy out's arent that great? Hmm... Do you think that I should hold out and wait for something better?

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          9. by definition
            (963 posts)
            19 years ago

            Re: 1923 Buescher True Tone

            I would wait, unless you need a horn. These essentially the Bundys, they just arent called that yet.

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          10. by Tenorlysaxyjazzguy
            (23 posts)
            19 years ago

            Re: 1923 Buescher True Tone

            Thanks, I don't want a Bundy, or anything like it. I guess that I will just keep my eyes open, something good is going to come along eventually. There is a Conn 10m 'naked lady' tenor in excellent shape that looks pretty good-it's just that the price might be a bit above me.... I'll keep a look out for king Zephyr's as well, I want a vintage horn that is in decent shape, I don't want a trashed one! Thanks again for your help!

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          11. by connsaxman_jim
            (2336 posts)
            19 years ago

            Re: 1923 Buescher True Tone

            Keep an eye on ebay. A 1956 10M in nice condition sold for $670! It was advertised only as a Conn tenor saxophone, but the pictures show that it's a 10M Naked Lady! I kinda wish I would have bid on it now! Ebay is probably the best place to find a nice vintage horn, but whatever you buy, plan on having it checked out and replacing a few pads.

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          12. by Tenorlysaxyjazzguy
            (23 posts)
            19 years ago

            Re: 1923 Buescher True Tone

            I saw that one. I wanted it too, but I would actually like something in a bit better shape. I'll just wait some thing will come along eventually. Which vintage sax do you think is best for Jazz?

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          13. by Tenorlysaxyjazzguy
            (23 posts)
            19 years ago

            Re: 1923 Buescher True Tone

            What year is a Conn 10m serial # 754306?

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          14. by johnsonfromwisconsin
            (767 posts)
            19 years ago

            Re: 1923 Buescher True Tone

            The Post TH&C/Selmer Buescher 400s are not like Bundy's of the same era, that would be the Aristocrats of the time. The 400s remained a distinct product line until the 70s or so and were still considered a Professional line by Buescher. The general consensus is that the TH&C was the epitome of the Buescher 400 plate and that the horn gradually declined from there (which decline actually started before the Selmer buyout in '63). 400s made just after the buyout are likely to be just as good as the Post-TH&C produced just before Selmer bought Buescher. A common portion of the 400 line manufactured after '63 was the model with left-side mounted keys and a floral pattern surrounded the 'Buescher 400' logo engraved vertically on the bell. All of these sported the Gold-plated norton springs and snap-in pads, while some had the underslung octave mechanism on the neck. These can be very good horns and clearly better than a typical student instrument. I own a tenor in the 44x,xxx range.

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          15. by johnsonfromwisconsin
            (767 posts)
            19 years ago

            Re: 1923 Buescher True Tone

            ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- How much would you think a perfect 1960's Buescher 400 Tenor Saxophone-this thing doesn't have one dent and looks brand new! Would it be worth $1,000 or more? Thanks again for your help! ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------- If it were a Top Hat and Cane, it would probably command around $2500 or more from a reputable dealer. Any 400 tenor made after 1963 would probably top out at $1000 in near-mint condition. I bought mine for $600 from a retailer in good mechanical/fair cosmetic condition. I've seen one advertised in a personal ad over at saxontheweb for $450 by a forum regular, yet I don't know that he sold it. They are good horns, but perhaps not great to most players. In any case, the market value is currently quite low for them, so try to resist being bamboozled into paying top dollar for such horns even if they play very well for you.

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