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by The_MarkVI
(80 posts)
19 years ago

NEW SAX ARTIST ONLY 16!!

Hey guys. Check out this beast of a saxophone player. www.alexhan.com made his first CD at age 11.

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  2. by TANGO SIX ONE
    (255 posts)
    19 years ago

    Re: NEW SAX ARTIST ONLY 16!!

    The knights Templar have not seen this kid but were sure there are thousands out in the world.The question is what do you define as good.To the Knights Templar its near on impossible for him or her aged 11 to be any good.Reason is no matter how much some one has been developing and we say again havent heard it, This business is primarily about rhythm and expression.How on earth can an eleven year old kid or 16 express emotions of the world. Its like asking a eleven year old to do shakespeare or act out devorce for the third time, in a drama group relationships etc.Good compared to what ,aclock ,a piece of furniture.Even at 16 genius of instruments have not experienced enough of life to be good.Its not their fault thats just how it is.Thats life So the knights suggest their is a lot to learn here.


  3. by barimachine
    (323 posts)
    19 years ago

    Re: NEW SAX ARTIST ONLY 16!!

    seen it... hes good, I dont like his stuff that much i know 17 yo players who i know 3 that are better, its all about being in the right place at the right time


    1. by northdakota27
      (3 posts)
      19 years ago

      Re: NEW SAX ARTIST ONLY 16!!

      yea. i dont think hes very impressive either. i've heard much better young jazzers. i'im not sure how hes that well recognized and i dont understand what everyones talking about. sorry, but i really dont.


      1. by connsaxman_jim
        (2336 posts)
        19 years ago

        Re: NEW SAX ARTIST ONLY 16!!

        I'm not impressed with Alex Han. He sounds like a beginner with squeak fast squeak fingers! His intonation and pitch control are terrible. He's all over the place! THAT's not jazz! Freedom of interpretation and lack of absolute structure is one thing; but this kid isn't even in the same zip code! What we have here is the "Hanson" of the jazz world!


    2. by don marco
      (8 posts)
      19 years ago

      Re: NEW SAX ARTIST ONLY 16!!

      I don't generally bag players that are around about my age, because i know that there's room to grow and become a well refined player. it is for this reason the alex han should not have cut his first album at 11. He's been over-exposed and over-praised. you can tell by his music that he's a pretentious snob. He has no regard what so ever for his rhythm section, he can only play in one style but the one thing that annoys me most is his lack of creativity and originality. on All the Things You Are, he plays it like you would in a jam session. standard intro, solos. I don't want to hear that. Where's the originality? straight into solo, he came out high and loud with a cool lick. at first i thought, "yeah, cool solo break" but it kept going for another 8 bars. then another lick. then another. It's just cheap playing. Where are his ideas? when is he going to give us time to take it in? why doesn't he just shut up and listen to his rhythm section, i'm sure they've got something to say. I think what he should do is go into hiding for 5 years, really learn how to play jazz, then re-emerge as the next big thing. It's all there, he just needs re-evaluate his approach.


      1. by SaxMan88
        (318 posts)
        19 years ago

        Re: NEW SAX ARTIST ONLY 16!!

        Ya kno, I gotta admit, you guys kill me. You make assumptions about people you don't even know. Someone called him a 'pretentious' snob. Did you talk to him and gather that? I don't think you did b/c I talked to him via email when I saw this and he answered me the first time personally with nothing but good intention and anything but snobbiness in his tone. The last two emails were from his father, who was also a gentleman. You guys also make him sound like he's piss poor...I didn't think he was THAT bad. Somebody's gotta like him...he's obviously selling albums, which means he has fans, which means he must appeal to somebody. So some of you might call him the next Kenny G as far as who he appeals to? Go ahead, but I give him credit for doing what he's doing and quite frankly I can't pun anyone with that kind of success or luck.


        1. by don marco
          (8 posts)
          19 years ago

          Re: NEW SAX ARTIST ONLY 16!!

          ok, pretentious snob was an assumption, i shouldn't have written that. But to saxman88, you can't honestly say that this guy should be making records yet


        2. by connsaxman_jim
          (2336 posts)
          19 years ago

          Re: NEW SAX ARTIST ONLY 16!!

          I agree that Alex Han IS very over-rated and over-exposed for someone of his age. He's got some good riffs, but still has the embouchre of a 6th grade band student from what I heard! He has yet to refine his playing. His albums sound like a jam session, only the rhythem section is in one room, and there's Alex in another room, doing his own thing. He's all over the place! He apparently has no concept of rhythem whatsoever! I think his intonation SUCKS! Not only would I NOT be making records, if my intonation and tone were that bad, I'd be SEEKING PRIVATE LESSONS!


        3. by TANGO SIX ONE
          (255 posts)
          19 years ago

          Re: NEW SAX ARTIST ONLY 16!!

          The knights Templar are enjoying this thread ,we think it tells its own story Firstly to Connsaxman jim, Spot on, all over the place is correct. lessons we feel may help him ,we are sure moneys of no object to him. thats obvious.Potential of course so has everyone with application.We come from a world where you have got to pay your dues.To react to whats around you at any given moment in time comes from maturity.We remember in europe one time doing gigs with ex Art Blakey messenger cats, one in particular told the knights it took him till he was 40 to nail ballads down.Its not the notes its experience of life.You got to live it. Response To sax man 88. Whats good to you isnt good to the rest of us.So may be you need to go away and think about it.Try work it out.One day this young man may be a great player.You can fool some of the people some of the time.Not on a site where some serious blowers hang out. Ok the kids got a fan base,So had Hitler but it didnt mean he was good.(Bird Lives)


        4. by SaxMan88
          (318 posts)
          19 years ago

          Re: NEW SAX ARTIST ONLY 16!!

          Well, maybe the kid shouldn't be cutting records yet. That might be his one flaw. Instead of showing off what he thinks he has, maybe he should have let it get even better (if there is anything there) and then let it fly. Nothing wrong with thinking you're good...I think I'm good...but, I don't have albums made nor am I publicly recognized nor do I have a website...yet LOL. So I can understand why a lot of you, especially those like Jim who I'm sure when was my age, was still trying to grow and become better instead of putting a limit to yourself at age 17, thinking you've made it. That's the only flaw I can find...I think he sounds quite all right. But then again, what tf do I know?


        5. by connsaxman_jim
          (2336 posts)
          19 years ago

          Re: NEW SAX ARTIST ONLY 16!!

          Tango, I couldn't agree with you more. Alex hasn't lived long enough to experience what the music is about. His music lacks emotion and dynamics. An experienced musician knows what to play and when to play it. Sometimes an elaborate riff is good, sometimes simple is better. Sometimes the concept of free jazz is taken too literally. You should never stray too far from the rhythem patterns otherwise, it's not music; it sounds more like a train wreck! Alex Han trys to cover up his poor embouchre and bad timing with excessive riffs, which only demonstrate his lack of experience.


        6. by JJ
          (22 posts)
          19 years ago

          Re: NEW SAX ARTIST ONLY 16!!

          Who do all of you think you are? Instead of tearing down a kid, who clearly, is very talented, why don't you do something productive? So what if he made a CD at 14 which you don't like. What did you sound like at 14? Who died and made you all the Jazz Police? Are you guys such "kick-ass" Jazz musicians? If so, I'd like to know who you are, because otherwise, I can only assume you're all lame players. So, prove me wrong. Post a website address where we can listen to Mp3s of each one of you, and let's see how good or bad each one of you are, regardless of your age. Have you guys won any major Jazz Awards? I guess the Judges at Down Beat, Yamaha (which included Eugenue Rousseau), the Monterey Jazz Festival and others don't know Jazz like you guys. And I guess Alex Han got to play at all of these festivals and also with all those great Jazz musicians, because he couldn't play? Did you see the letters on Alex's website from Joe Lovano and Rufus Reid? I'm sure they're a better judge of musicianship than any of you. And by the way, connsaxman_jim, who makes you the guru of Jazz? Are YOU one of THE INNOVATORS? It's nice that you B.S. about how he hasn't lived long enough to do this or that, but you are just proving what a total #@!hole you are, and that you're totally full of S@$#! And to SaxMan88, alhough I appreciate that you in some ways defended Alex, what's this crap about "he's not that bad" etc. As I recall from your e-mails, you had nothing but good things to say about Alex. In fact, here's your e-mail to Alex: " just heard of Alex Han today on a forum...checked him out..one word...WOW. Almost sounds like John Coltrane *eek*. Anyway, I'm a 16 year old sax player specializing in jazz. I've been to County Band Festivals and tried out for District Band this year to no avail...actually...I couldn't make the tryouts...but I worked on the piece and etc...long story. I'd like to hear from Alex, I don't know how you'd put it, sax player to sax player. Maybe tips or tricks...I'm working on altissimo scales right now (G and up) and any advice offered would be wonderful. I'd really like to hear from tha' man!!! Thanx and take care." You sound pretty two-faced to me...quite unfortunate. And could it be that the rest of you are at the same level of musicianship as SaxMan88? Anyway, the bottom line is you guys are all petty, immature and probably not very good players. While you guys sit around your computers and B.S. senselessly on sax web blogs, Alex continues to develop his playing.


        7. by SaxMan88
          (318 posts)
          19 years ago

          Re: NEW SAX ARTIST ONLY 16!!

          Whoa, stop. First of all how in the hell did you get my email to Alex Han? Unless you're his father or Alex himself? In which case my use of the phrase "He wasn't that bad" was a relative term meaning good for his niche. Good for a 17 year old, but I'm sure he could develop into someone as good as Jim (connsaxmanjim). That's what I meant. I am not two faced as you interpreted me. That was unfortunate. I'm still dying to know how ya got ahold of that email address...


        8. by JJ
          (22 posts)
          19 years ago

          Re: NEW SAX ARTIST ONLY 16!!

          Da, what do you think. You went on to say in your second post, that Alex put a limit on himself at 17. What limit dude? It's called documenting his development. You have no idea what you're talking about. By the way, on what do you base your comment that you're sure "he could develop into someone as good as Jim." Have you heard any recordings of this guy, because I'd love to.


        9. by SaxMan88
          (318 posts)
          19 years ago

          Re: NEW SAX ARTIST ONLY 16!!

          Didn't say nothing about putting a limit on himself. Just that when someone gets that much fame and is acclaimed that much the psych of the mind might say, "Hey I'm good...and I must be pretty damn good...so why should I strive to get any better?" More like common sense. What did I think? With the internet these days you coulda been some lame hacker for all I know.


        10. by JJ
          (22 posts)
          19 years ago

          Re: NEW SAX ARTIST ONLY 16!!

          You obviously don't know what you wrote, so here it is: "So I can understand why a lot of you, especially those like Jim who I'm sure when was my age, was still trying to grow and become better instead of putting a limit to yourself at age 17, thinking you've made it." What that means to me is that you're saying all these other knuckleheads were still trying to grow and weren't putting a limit on themselves at age 17, which of course means that you're saying that Alex is, because you presume given his level of achievement that Alex thinks he has "made it." That's absurd. Is there anywhere on Alex's website where he states that he's made it and doesn't have to develop any more? The point is, Alex has indeed achieved an advanced level of playing, FOR ANY AGE, and that obviously, it is being documented and many well-know Jazz musicians and aficionados are taking notice of him. Obviously, this is a problem for many if not all of you on this blog. That's unfortunate and pathetic.


        11. by SaxMan88
          (318 posts)
          19 years ago

          Re: NEW SAX ARTIST ONLY 16!!

          All right guys, here it is; I'm not trying to jump the fence on this one but here's my final thoughts on this. I think I was wrong in saying what I said about Alex, b/c I feel JJ (who is Alex's father) has more or less put most of us to shame if not all of us. Quite honestly I think I was just trying to avoid ridicule by the 'sax police' and just went along with what Jim and others were saying. But now I've been listening to some of Alex Han's songs...closely...disecting them the best I know how. Jim, what you said about him and the rhythm section...I dunno where you're getting that from. Maybe if you could point it out for me I'd understand, but as of now I don't see it. I really like the song he wrote "Steps Away". Actually I'm thinking this kid sounds a ton better than Kenny G. And guys, what I said in my first post I'll state again, I think most of you took the wrong approach to this. Instead of trying to approach it constructively, ya'll whacked him out of the sky. You might have been trying to be constructive, but it came across as sax-bashing blow hards. Keep that in mind.


        12. by eman19
          (131 posts)
          19 years ago

          Re: NEW SAX ARTIST ONLY 16!!

          I'd like to add that you shouldn't pay any attention to Tango JJ. I don't think age really makes a large difference. One can experience a lifetime of feelings in a matter of a few years. As to the quality of your son's sound, I think it is very good, especially considering his age, and much better then some others that I've heard that have been recorded. I've met Joe Lovano and agree with his statement. I look forward to seeing Alex progress. I also didn't get a feel of cockyness from the website. Kudos to your good fortune, send some my way if you want=o). Thats just my opinion, I could be wrong.


        13. by eman19
          (131 posts)
          19 years ago

          Re: NEW SAX ARTIST ONLY 16!!

          Oh yeah and as for other artist who played young - Charlie Parker (married and playing at or around 16) and another jazz cat that pops to mind is Tony Williams, a drummer that started playing with miles and many others in his teen years as well.


        14. by connsaxman_jim
          (2336 posts)
          19 years ago

          Re: NEW SAX ARTIST ONLY 16!!

          Oh, and by the way...at age 32...I'm STILL learning! CONSTANTLY learning. If you are a TRUE musician, true to yourself and your music.....the time you stop learning is when you die!


        15. by connsaxman_jim
          (2336 posts)
          19 years ago

          Re: NEW SAX ARTIST ONLY 16!!

          There's a lot to making records that you apparently do not understand, and I HAVE made recordings! In fact, you probably HAVE heard me. I've worked with some pretty big names. I can hold my own against any of those you mentioned, and I can spank Alex Han like a little baby! That's fine if you believe me or not, I really don't care. But Alex has a lot to learn!


        16. by JJ
          (22 posts)
          19 years ago

          Re: NEW SAX ARTIST ONLY 16!!

          Once again YOU'RE ALL TALK! I'm still waiting for you to tell me how I can listen to some of your recordings. What are you waiting for? Show all of us how good you are...MP3s please. Tell us all you full name so we can look you up on Google, and note your accomplishments. Anyone can say that they're good, and that you've worked with some pretty big names but where's the PROOF?????? The only spanking you can do is on yourself. You have a lot more to learn than Alex


        17. by phathorn
          (165 posts)
          19 years ago

          Re: NEW SAX ARTIST ONLY 16!!

          Something Alex and his dad will have to learn- with success comes criticism. The weakness to the argument......so, if Joe Lovano says the kid is great, I'm automatically supposed to agree? I think he COULD BE great, if he stops playing festivals and making CDs for a while and learns, from a pedagogical sense, how to play the horn.


        18. by JJ
          (22 posts)
          19 years ago

          Re: NEW SAX ARTIST ONLY 16!!

          To Phat Horn, hey, if Joe say's Alex is great, that's his opinion, which most normal Jazzers respect, because ofJoe's skill, experience and creativity. This is not to say that Alex can't improve, I've never ever said that, and it is not said anywhere on his website. EVERY musician continues to evolve and learn, no matter what age. YOu really know nothing about Alex. Over the years, Alex has and still studies with an instructor. He studies from various Jazz method books as well. The problem is here we have a bunch of guys who think they know it all, and have no accomplishments listed, or recordings available to back it up. Do you think you'll be asked to coach an NFL team if you don't have any qualified, track record? You're all Monday night quarterbacking.


        19. by JJ
          (22 posts)
          19 years ago

          Re: NEW SAX ARTIST ONLY 16!!

          By the way PhatHorn, something you all need to learn is how to be decent human beings. You call what you said criticism? Here it is: "What's sad is that this kid is going to get used to having his ass kissed until he ends up at a jazz festival standing next to a Ravi Coltrane, Brecker,Branford, or the like and have his ass handed to him....that type of humiliation can quickly end a career...." First of all, when he was 13 years old, Alex PLAYED NEXT TO Joe Lovano, Paquito D'Rivera, Johnny Griffin, Nicholas Payton, Kenny Barron, Slide Hampton, Lewis Nash, Jon Faddis, et al. And guess, what, he didn't have his ass handed to him, nor did his career quickly come to an end. In fact, they all were incredibly supportive of him, as you could see, if you took the time to view the video of that performance on his website. And the crowd loved him too! And to the contrary, Alex's career, now at age 17, has never looked brighter. He's just been offered an endorsement deal by Rico International, already endorses AMT Mics, and has just won the Yamaha Young Performing Artists Competition for Saxophone, not to mention being selected for an alto chair on the Monterey Jazz Festival Next Generation Orchestra, and is a two-time recipient of the Down Beat Student Music Awards for Jazz Soloist Outstanding Performance (including this year's) in addition to upcoming performances at major Jazz venues including the Twin Cities Jazz Festival, Montreal Jazz Festival, Dizzy's Club Coca Cola at Lincoln Center, and the Monterey Jazz Festival to name only a few. Oh, and by the way, at age 12, Alex played at the same Jazz Festival as Herbie Hancock, Branford Marsalis, Jeff Golub, Terry Lynn Carrington and many others. Ass handed to him? He blew everyone away, including the musicians! Alex has done nothing wrong to you, and yet who are you to make such idiotic remarks about someone you clearly didn't take the time to fully check out.


        20. by JJ
          (22 posts)
          19 years ago

          Re: NEW SAX ARTIST ONLY 16!!

          And by the way, when I said Alex blew everyone away, of course I meant he impressed everyone with his talent.


        21. by martysax
          (148 posts)
          19 years ago

          Re: NEW SAX ARTIST ONLY 16!!

          Can't we all just get along? The kid sounds good, he's where he should be for his age and could have a bright future. God bless him. If the novelty is his age, that's about to wear off. I don't often think of the age of a musical performer, just the sound. He can't stop time, but he can use it wisely. Now that he's almost legal age, he should find professional management to show him properly. The best red zinfandel comes from the old vines.


        22. by phathorn
          (165 posts)
          19 years ago

          Re: NEW SAX ARTIST ONLY 16!!

          I don't remember EVER disparaging the kid...I said he needed work in the pedagogy of the horn....and you're right....since my experience only includes studies with Don Sinta, Allen Rippe, John Sampen and Joe Lulloff and since I've only shared the stage with musicians such as Milt Hinton, Jimmy Heath, Randy Brecker, The Memphis Horns, etc...I obviously have NO idea what I'm talking about. I said the kid has the potential to be great. I also said that he and those around him better be prepared to handle criticism. Obviously, those around him have a problem with that.


        23. by JJ
          (22 posts)
          19 years ago

          Re: NEW SAX ARTIST ONLY 16!!

          Have you been where Alex has been? Do you know it all? I don't have a problem with constructive criticism, but yours is not. And I especially think it's inappropriate from someone who can't even show us any concrete examples of his own playing. Who died and made you the Jazz wisdom guru? Let us all hear some Mp3s of you playing, particularly soloing over some changes. Studying with good teachers (sorry I don't recognize those names), doesn't mean you're a good player or that you're qualilfied to give anyone career advice. I'm still waiting for those recordings.


        24. by connsaxman_jim
          (2336 posts)
          19 years ago

          Re: NEW SAX ARTIST ONLY 16!!

          I think Alex has a lot of potential, but listening to his CD, he's skipped a few steps, and there are some very basic things he needs to learn! Marty said it best.......The novelty of his age! THAT's the reason for all the hype. The kid has some good licks! I'm not disputing that, but he needs to work on the basics and REFINE his talent and listen to his rhythem section! I did my first record in 1995. That album featured me on both sax and keyboard. I recorded again in 1996 on sax and keys, and the band broke up later that year. Keeping musicians together is the hardest thing in the world! That relates back to egos and arrogance I suppose! I recorded again in 1998, but this time with an alternative rock band. I sang and played lead guitar. Those first 2 recordings were quite expensive to make, though much of the costs was divided between us, and at that time, we were playing some of the nicest clubs in town, had great media exposure and advertising through the clubs and local radio stations, and both CD's did fairly well here locally. The CD I recorded with the alternative rock band didn't do so well. It cost a fortune to record that CD, and I ended up paying most of the costs myself. The CD did get some local exposure on the radio, and earned us the chance to open for The Verve Pipe. That band had a lot of potential, but the drummer and bass player hated each other.....all over some dumb girl who was playing both of them! GO FIGURE....So, THAT band broke up, and I had a ton of CD's that I paid for and no band to promote them! I gave them out to my friends as Christmas presents! Since 2001, I have recorded a few times with different artists, I've done some concerts, and various projects. I have a few things in the works. I've been finishing up an Engineering degree, and I've been working and going to school. I want a better, more stable career than music. Music is my passion, but it's more of a hobby than a career.


        25. by JJ
          (22 posts)
          19 years ago

          Re: NEW SAX ARTIST ONLY 16!!

          First off, yes, a lot of people have taken notice of Alex due to his great talent relative to his young age. SO what? As one extremely successful and well-known Jazz musician recently said to me, Alex is not just good for his age, but for any age. Is this to say that he is technically more skilled than say, Joe Lovano? No way. But you guys are hammering away at him, like he did something wrong and as if you know better. I got news for all of you...there is no RIGHT age to record a CD. And even if there was, why would you all be the judge of that? And as it turns out, you haven't even recorded on Sax since 1996? Why don't you post that recording so we can all check it out and critique it? Your unfortunate experience in the recording of your CD projects is just that....your unfortunate experience. How can you assume that, given Alex's success to date, and that fact that you can't make it as a musician, much less a Jazz Saxophonist, you are in any position to criticize, let alone give advice to Alex? Alex has launched a very successful start to his career as a musician, unlike you. Have you even checked out Alex's new sound clips or VIDEO CLIPS? Listen to his rhythm section? Check out his latest videos, like Mahjong, Equinox, Au Privave or You've Changed. As far as refining his talent, if you'd listened to and watched all of his videos and music clips, you'd see that happening. But, clearly you are speaking as someone from the outside looking in. For any musician, developing one's talent and skill is a life-long pursuit. The point is that Alex is where he is for a reason... because he's incredibly talented, and not that he's the top Jazz saxophonist in the world at age 17, because clearly he's not, and we've never said he is. And by the way for everyone's edification, Alex recorded his first commercially available CD at 14, not at 11. And finally, NO ONE including YOU, has yet to provide us with any Mp3s or recordings of yourselves. Why do you all keep avoiding that? Listen, when any one of you can provide proof that you are great Jazz saxophonists, don't spew out B.S. about Alex because it's becoming increasingly obvious that none of you are very good players.


        26. by StratmanBaze
          (61 posts)
          19 years ago

          Re: NEW SAX ARTIST ONLY 16!!

          woah woah as I said in an earlier fight in the discussion forums I dont want to be put in this fight, but I got something to say. JJ- i have never in my life went to a persons website and had a pop-up browser come up stating achievements. I know you have helped your son and your son has worked very hard to be where he is now, but you guys throw that away by sticking it in our faces. he is a talented player...very talented and in 20 years- hell, maybe even 5, maybe 1- he can be the next big thing in the sax world. I'll admit i'm 15 and I'm good among my friends and I'm no where as good as your son, but putting a pop-up browser about achievements and calling him "the 17-year old player" is just obnoxious. something like that isn't good for a young, talented kid like that. Also, whether you like it or not... connsaxman_jim is a good player. sure, he despises selmer badly (i swear by selmer) but he's a very knowledgable person. I wouldn't be so quick to say that his intonation isnt as good as your son's. second- to all those who say (alex) han should be taking private lessons... I do know someone who is enrolled at the University of Chicago- top 10 university, top 5 law school- who is 11 years old! why doesn't he go to gradeschool? the fact is, everyone learns differently. the majority of children go to elementary school and then highschool, but you get 1 in 10,000 kids who is a f**kin' genius and goes to harvard or something. believe it or not, alex han is one who may have learned pretty quickly because of his abilities. without a doubt, he is still learning by performing and practicing. always, when you perform, you learn a great deal. even the pros. I havent gigged playing sax, but i have with guitar with my band and I have learned so much after 2 or 3 gigs. I don't think there is anything wrong with his intonation. you dont like his sound? well thats too bad because it's his choice how his sound is! third~ honestly to tell you the truth, this whole tread is stupid...you guys spend a lot of time coming to this website, and thats good to share info., but this tread is a good example of wasting time. why don't you maybe give alex han some advice or pointers through his website? if he doesnt choose to take them or put them into use, just mind your own business! laugh at him all you want, but keep it to yourself! connsaxman_jim is right about musicians having egos, but saying that and admitting it does not solve any problems!!! this is the last post you'll be seeing from me... I think i'm going to spend my time i'd be using on the internet to practice more.


        27. by phathorn
          (165 posts)
          19 years ago

          Re: NEW SAX ARTIST ONLY 16!!

          ok jj, PLEASE for the love of GOD explain to me how saying that the kid needed work on the pedagogy of the horn (things like tone production, intonation, etc.) isn't constructive? As for the instructors I mentioned, it's understandable why you don't know who they are, since they are primarily classical instructors.(Although Sinta's students have included Branford, Kirk Whalum, and Bob Mintzer, to name a few). My recording? Ok, I'll grant you this. I don't have one yet, since we go into the studio at the end of August to record our first one...


        28. by connsaxman_jim
          (2336 posts)
          19 years ago

          Re: NEW SAX ARTIST ONLY 16!!

          Well, you're right John. I should have a website I suppose. It's been low on my priority list because I do play out often and I am well known locally as "The best around!" I work 40 hours or more per week. I go to school 16 hours per week, and I play music on the weekends. I've adopted saxquest as my website, because it means more to me to take the time to respond to other people's questions and help those just getting started, than to showcase my talents. I TRY to be modest, but I admit, I can also be very arrogant. My ego is big enough. Still, I hope to have a website soon, and when I do, I will post a link. I really don't have many recordings either that really showcase my talent. Most of the recordings that I do have are of me playing keys and back-up. There's a couple nice sax solos, but nothing that would really knock your socks off like I do live. I'll have to see what I can dig up, and maybe even break out the recorder and lay some track if I get time! I think Alex IS good for his age. I think he's better than many saxophonists I have heard that are twice his age! But, we learn through criticism. You watch American Idol, and a lot of people HATE Simon! They say he always has some smart-ass nasty comment to say. Since the beginning of the season, I have seen Simon criticise certain contestants, and those contestants do considerably better week after week! Alex has a lot of potential, but I can hear the inexperience in his playing. He's making the same mistakes I made when I was his age. I was as good as Alex if not better when I was 16. I'm not asking you to believe me. When I was Alex's age I was on fire! I had chops and licks like you wouldn't believe and I played them! As I have gained experience, I have learned that it's not just the chops that make the player! It's when you use them! Sometimes less is more. Alex has some hot licks, but jazz is not one lick after another! The music has to flow. The licks have to fit the rhythem. Listen to Alex, his timing needs improvement. He needs to listen more to the rhythem section, and I think his tone quality needs improvement also. Don't take it so personally man! The kid's good! Listen to me and he'll be better! Writing nasty emails like this isn't going to help your reputation either. It's just another example of immaturity and inexperience! Jim


        29. by JJ
          (22 posts)
          19 years ago

          Re: NEW SAX ARTIST ONLY 16!!

          And connsaxman, here's how it all started with your first kind comments about Alex on this forum: but still has the embouchre of a 6th grade band student from what I heard! He has yet to refine his playing. His albums sound like a jam session, only the rhythem section is in one room, and there's Alex in another room, doing his own thing. He's all over the place! He apparently has no concept of rhythem whatsoever! I think his intonation SUCKS! Not only would I NOT be making records, if my intonation and tone were that bad, I'd be SEEKING PRIVATE LESSONS! That's down right nasty, so can you blame me for my e-mailed response to you? Still, I was pretty mild in comparison. I'll say it again, show me some recordings. You just talk, talk, talk about how great you were at Alex's age and how great you are, well, you say that: There's a couple nice sax solos, but nothing that would really knock your socks off like I do live Let's listen to them anyway...and see how your time and intonation are. Let's see if you can solo, dude. It seems like all you do is make excuses which can only mean you're not a very good player and are in no way qualified, much less justified in making stupid comments like the one above. And Gee, what a surprise, now the other bigshot PhatSax finally admits that he doesn't have any recordings too. Wow, you guys MUST BE GOOD!!!!!! Hey, keep your lame comments to yoursel\ves.


        30. by JJ
          (22 posts)
          19 years ago

          Re: NEW SAX ARTIST ONLY 16!!

          and connsaxman, don't you find it odd, no make that pathetic, that at age 31, you don't have any recordings of yourself, which you feel comfortable in sharing with the rest of us? And yet you claim that when you were Alex's age you were ON FIRE AND HAD CHOPS THAT I WOULDN'T BELIEVE. You're right, at this point, I don't think anyone believes you! And then you have the nerve to say for Alex to Listen to you and he'll be even better...from the guy who's too ashamed to share his recordings with us! I can't even imagine how lame you must sound. Once again you arrogant idiot, do not give advice you're clearly not qualified to give, much less make those nasty comments from your initial post and even your last post.


        31. by connsaxman_jim
          (2336 posts)
          19 years ago

          Re: NEW SAX ARTIST ONLY 16!!

          Another problem with most of the music that I have recorded recently is that it's not mine! I would need to get permission before making any reference to the music or the artist. Most of the artists I have recorded with wouldn't mind, I'm sure, but the record companies and producers might. I don't want Nile Rogers getting pissed off and starting a law suit against me; or any of the other producers I have recorded for. So again John, it's not that easy, but I will see what I can do. I'm sure I can put something together.


        32. by JJ
          (22 posts)
          19 years ago

          Re: NEW SAX ARTIST ONLY 16!!

          Connsaxman, Just more lame excuses. You don't know what's more unprofessional...? I'll tell you then. How about a bunch of guys maliciously trashing a kid, who's done NOTHING WRONG to them. Do you see Alex trashing you? You seem to forget how unneccesarily RUDE and OBNOXIOUS in your comments you've been to Alex. Saying that Alex has the embouchure of a 6th grade band student, that his intonation SUCKS (you put in upper case) and that he should be SEEKING PRIVATE LESSONS (again, you put this in upper case). That's real professional, DUDE. It's no wonder you can't make it as a professional musician, because unlike Alex, I can't imagine anyone wanting to work with you. And what I'm doing is showing all of you what total ASSWIPES YOU ARE. If you don't like his playing, what would have been PROFESSIONAL is to say nothing at all and move on to another thread or say what you said without being MEAN SPIRITED. If you can't see that, then you are a total LOSER. You should be supportive of kids like Alex, who have not only taken an interest in America's true art form, Jazz, but are excelling in it. Forums are SUPPOSED to help others. Can you tell me how your VICIOUS comments like the ones above, are helping Alex or anyone else? NOW THAT'S UNPROFESSIONAL. Putting you guys in your place is not! I would love for any one who knows Jazz to read this entire pathetic thread, and see who they think is being UNPROFESSIONAL and Down Right Obnoxious, because it would be all of you. REMEMBER, this whole sad thing started because of the nasty comments you guy made about Alex. And as a father, do you think I would let you say all this this B.S. unchallenged? And by the way, there were a few other guys at the top of this blog who expressed their opinions about Alex, which were critical, but said it in a non-malicious way...and I didn't have a problem with that. If you all had half a brain, you'd do a little soul searching to figure out how to be better people.


        33. by connsaxman_jim
          (2336 posts)
          19 years ago

          Re: NEW SAX ARTIST ONLY 16!!

          CAN SOMEBODY NOT TAKE CRITICISM OR WHAT!?!?! You and Alex BOTH have a lot of growing up and LEARNING to do! My comments may have been a little harsh, but SPOT ON! What a role model he has! I can see who he gets his arrogance from!


        34. by JJ
          (22 posts)
          19 years ago

          Re: NEW SAX ARTIST ONLY 16!!

          Phathorn, Apparently your first, obnoxious post has been removed, but here's what you said, as I still have it from when I copied and pasted it into an e-mail I sent to you: What's sad is that this kid is going to get used to having his ass kissed until he ends up at a jazz festival standing next to a Ravi Coltrane, Brecker,Branford, or the like and have his ass handed to him....that type of humiliation can quickly end a career.... So, in answer to your question, as to explain how you saying that the kid needed work on the pedagogy of the horn isn't constructive, sadly, I don't see anything like that in your comment above, do you? And as I said to you before, Alex has already performed alongside a number of Jazz Giants, like Joe Lovano, Paquito D'Rivera, Nicholas Payton, Jon Faddis, Kenny Barron, Joey DeFrancesco, George Benson, Rufus Reid, Lewis Nash, et al, and he didn't have his ass handed to him in humiliation, nor has his career quickly ended. And by the way, no one's kissing Alex's ass, as you put it...that's just a baseless and malicious assumption of yours. Your know the old saying dude, it's not what you say, but how you say it. Yet again, you are in denial of what a jerk you really are. You want to help Alex or anyone. Try shutting up. Because not only are you a B.S. artist full of himself, but an arrogant nutball who finally admits (if it's even true) that you don't even have a recording of yourself to show any of us whether or not you can even play Jazz well on your sax. Therefore, I can only assume you can't play very well. Otherwise, you're welcome to prove me wrong, but so far, all you have done is make a lame excuse. And by the way, one of the Judges who selected Alex as the Winner of this year's Yamaha Young Performing Artists Competition for saxophone, is Eugene Rousseau. Do you know who he is? Of course you do. I would really love to hear you play, but sadly, you won't give me that treat.


      2. by don marco
        (8 posts)
        19 years ago

        Re: NEW SAX ARTIST ONLY 16!!

        I'd like to restate my opinion on Alex Han. I made him out to be a lot worse than he actually is. He's quite good. However, i think his main downfall is that he doesn't show a lot of interaction with his rhythm sections. But you have to take into account that he is only 16. I'm sure in a few years time he'll be one hot player.


        1. by phathorn
          (165 posts)
          19 years ago

          Re: NEW SAX ARTIST ONLY 16!!

          JJ, WOW! You are right! I did say that...and guess what, if Alex doesn't improve in a few years and the novelty of his youth wears off, he could get embarassed. However, instead of focusing on getting better, you would prefer attacking anyone who claims that Alex isn't the end all be all of saxophone. Of course I know who Eugene Rousseau is. Do you know Otis Murphy, who took the job at Indiana when Eugene left? Why don't you ask Otis who went out of his way to help him with tone production and the altissimo register while he was a camper at Interlochen? You want Alex to get better? Send him to study with Rousseau, or Sinta, or even better perhaps, send him to Manhatten School of Music to study with Jack Kripl and Bob Mintzer....he could be downright scary after a few years working with those guys!


          1. by connsaxman_jim
            (2336 posts)
            19 years ago

            Re: NEW SAX ARTIST ONLY 16!!

            JJ would rather attack anyone who has anything negative to say rather than accept a little criticism. Did I hurt little Alex's ego and make him cry with my comments? Awwww I'm so sorry! Well, then IMPRESS me! Give me something worth listening too! I want to hear MUSIC, not a jam session with some kid who has no concept of rhythem! Alex is a farse! He's a novely that will soon wear off! Enjoy your time in the spotlight Alex, because with your attitude and your father's poor representation, it's likely to be short-lived! I agree with Phathorn, if Alex were to study with Sinta or Rousseaum or Bob Mintzer, who I know personally, he might be downright scary, but the reason for my earlier comments stems from your arrogance! Instead of guiding your son in the right direction, and providing him with the opportunity to learn and perfect his talent, you record him, promote him and try to market him as the "Jazz Great" he is not! Not yet anyways! Well JJ, in reading the rest of the posts on this topic, most people agree with me.


            1. by connsaxman_jim
              (2336 posts)
              19 years ago

              Re: NEW SAX ARTIST ONLY 16!!

              Got to make another record Alex.....Daddy needs a new pair of shoes! Ahhh......I think I have it figured out now!


          2. by JJ
            (22 posts)
            19 years ago

            Re: NEW SAX ARTIST ONLY 16!!

            Yes, Phathorn, I can see all that training worked wonders for you! You're all over the web. Press of your performances at festivals, and of course, all those incredible audio and video samples of your awesome Jazz skills. As I said before, you aren't qualified to give Jazz advice to anyone, much less Alex. You know, don't put thoughts or words in my mouth that just aren't there. As I've said before, Alex is not the greatest Jazz saxophonist on earth, but he is miles ahead of you, of that I am sure. And you needn't try to slight his success (to compensate for your failures) with coments like the novelty will wear off, he could get embarrassed. Save the embarrassment for you yet again putting your foot in your mouth. Still have shown any of us any evidence that you can play Jazz at all. You are really a joke, and that's no joke!


          3. by JJ
            (22 posts)
            19 years ago

            Re: NEW SAX ARTIST ONLY 16!!

            Now, Now, Connsaxman, are these rude comments really warranted? Perhaps you can take a break from this thread and return with a fresh perspective. See, I'm trying.


        2. by martysax
          (148 posts)
          19 years ago

          Re: NEW SAX ARTIST ONLY 16!!

          Not for nothing, but there are lots of kids of Alex's age who frequent these threads, and I'm sure Alex himself has read at least a portion of it. Let's all think back at our childhoods. Some came from musical families, some not, like myself. Some had lots of support from family, some not so much. Depending upon several variables, including respect, we choose to either follow, and hopefully surpass, our elder, or go against their wishes to prove them wrong. Has anyone asked Alex how he feels about his playing, and his direction? At 16, I was entering my freshman year at Brandeis looking for guys to play Bop with. I played 3+ gigs/week the whole time while pursuing my Biology degree. Music has always been important to me, and I have made sacrifices in my professional and personal life to sustain my level of proficiency. It has been the most expressive part of my life, and has allowed me to cope with the rat race for over twenty years. Does Alex have any interests other than Sax? Read up on the difference between Artie Shaw and Benny Goodman. You have to feel the world to play it faithfully. He's playing with grown men, he's hanging with grown men. Did he enjoy his childhood as well? I hope so.


          1. by JJ
            (22 posts)
            19 years ago

            Re: NEW SAX ARTIST ONLY 16!!

            Martysax, so far you've been about the most civil, mature and professional on this thread. I have no problem with people criticizing Alex' playing. But, as you can see, these guys went well beyond that to viciously trash Alex, and for what? So, they could feel good about themselves, knowing that no one on this blog knows who they really are, and assumes, because they say so, that they're such great players. Regarding Alex reading any of this garbage, the answer is no. He is too busy trying to be a 17 year old kid. Music, believe it or not, does not occupy the majority of his time. He's into filmmaking, going to the movies, other types of music, video games, hanging with friends and school. If you check out his schedule, it's not as if he's gigging 5 days a week...nothing near that. It's sad to know that there are a few guys out there that literally have nothing better to do with their lives. We've come across many musicians of varying calibre over the years, but NEVER, EVER, have I experienced such petty, jealous and arrogant people as on this thread.


        3. by saxismyaxe
          (575 posts)
          19 years ago

          Re: NEW SAX ARTIST ONLY 16!!

          Well, I thought I would take some time off from here due to the previous forum "dispute", thinking maybe I was adding fuel to the fire myself. I see that isn't the case. Now that Jim and Tango seem to have ironed the differences out: Tango is now making some good posts/observations, and we have JJ making an ass out of himself, yet again at Jim's expense. What the hell people, can't we all just get along? Seriously, whatever animosity existed for what ever reasons, let's not have another stupid mud slinging match. The conversation by ALL posting was starting to become enlightened and interesting (and civil!), why don't we strive to keep it that way?


        4. by FredCDobbs
          (77 posts)
          19 years ago

          Re: NEW SAX ARTIST ONLY 16!!

          JJ: I've only been playing for three years, and I haven't heard your son, so I don't have an opinion on him; in any case, I don't think I'm qualified to have one. But I do have an MA in English and an Masters in Business Adm. and I supervise 120 people. I have to tell you that in the battle of manners that has taken place on this thread, you are very, very far behind. Nothing that I have read from any of the other posters in any way justifies your aggressive and obscene replies, even as an obviously over protective father of a boy who clearly doesn't need one. Please believe me--your posture is not doing your son any favors! Quite the contrary, if I were his manager I'd consider you a liability I f you want to be an advocate for your son, force yourself to be courteous and non-aggressive, even if you have to fake it, regardless of how harsh or rude the criticism of him might be (for an example, look at the Cannonball thread in one of the other sections--study how the CEO of the company handled some truly harsh criticism of her product--her gracious diplomacy actually turned some opinions). No criticism in the world can do his career as much harm as your hostile responses, which automatically become associated with him. I've not even heard him yet, but after reading your posts, I'm disinclined to even check him out, because his image is now associated in my mind with your manners. See what I mean? Do your son a favor--become more diplomatic, or hire a P.R. person to respond to posts on forums like these.


          1. by JJ
            (22 posts)
            19 years ago

            Re: NEW SAX ARTIST ONLY 16!!

            Some good advice. Thanks.


          2. by SaxMan88
            (318 posts)
            19 years ago

            Re: NEW SAX ARTIST ONLY 16!!

            HEY!! SHUT IT ALREADY?!?! You guys have taken this horse, shot it, beat it to death, and then are tearing the hide apart. Enough!! Both of you (John and Jim) are wrong in your own ways, and with each response all you're doing is going around and around in a huge evil circle. This further proves that we are our own worst enemy. Let's knock it off and spare us all the stress, shall we?


          3. by JJ
            (22 posts)
            19 years ago

            Re: NEW SAX ARTIST ONLY 16!!

            Agreed!


          4. by tsax_player
            (76 posts)
            19 years ago

            Re: NEW SAX ARTIST ONLY 16!!

            Hey whats up? I just checked out some of Alex's stuff online. The site is really nice. He sounds great for his age!!! I would have loved to have sounded like that six years ago. And listening to the older clips to the new ones shows he is making great progress. I would like to make some constructive comments that I hope won't offend anyone. I played a gig with Dan Haerle, and Ed Soph a few years ago, (I think I was 18) I got put in my place really fast when Dan quit comping for me because I shut him out with sheets of sound. It is hard to adjust to playing with a rythm section (the only downside to Abersolds) but that will improve over time. One thing he shouldnt do is play any different, he needs to play what he hears and develope his own sound while listening and transcribing others. Another thing is harmony. He has a great sound but while listening to Au privav I noticed a few things.The second bar should go to a IV chord make sure the third gets lowered to the provide for the seven of the IV chord. When going to the IV in measure five make sure you alter the I chord in measure four giving you some momentum into the sub dominant chord. Measure eight of a be bop blues has a dominant VI chord taking you to a II V of I and then the final III VI II V turn around. I think he could pay more attention to the harmony in these sections. This is all stuff I didn't learn until my freshman year of college!!! Alex is off to a great start he is young but has a great concept, and sound. I can't wait to hear what he turns into in a few years (scary!) Keep playing, practicing, and always play what you hear. Hope this helps. Peace


          5. by JJ
            (22 posts)
            19 years ago

            Re: NEW SAX ARTIST ONLY 16!!

            Hey Tsax Player, that's great advice, and your sincerity is greatly appreciated! I will pass your comments on to Alex. Thanks for taking the time to check out both his older and newer clips! Good luck with your studies and career!


          6. by EL Seano
            (255 posts)
            19 years ago

            Re: NEW SAX ARTIST ONLY 16!!

            And by the way JJ, Why do you even care what these people (yes, including me) say? We're just losers with nothing to do but insult a player who is a mile ahead of us. If I were you I'd just laugh.


          7. by EL Seano
            (255 posts)
            19 years ago

            Re: NEW SAX ARTIST ONLY 16!!

            I am aware I made an obscenely vulgar post (which was deleted) and I would like to apologise. On first visiting Alex's Site, the first track i encountered didn't have much appeal to me. However, on further exploration, I notice that he is very talented and he should be proud of what he has accomplished in so little time. To John, I am sorry I insulted your son and I wish all the best for his future.


          8. by JJ
            (22 posts)
            19 years ago

            Re: NEW SAX ARTIST ONLY 16!!

            El Seano, A number of you, originally posted some unnecessarily offensive/ obscene comments about Alex. In fact, your comment was so offensive, that it has been removed from this thread altogether. The point is, I feel that posting those comments was wrong. It was also wrong for me to respond in the manner that I did. For that, I am sorry. And for the record, I have never, ever sent any one an e-mail virus. So, I would appreciate if would you cut it out with that. I love Jazz. And anyone who pursues Jazz at any level, is a great thing. If anyone felt so strongly about Alex's first effort on CD, then they could have just e-mailed him directly and said what they had to say. I've taken the time to read a few other threads, and I've seen some very thoughtful advice from the very same guys on this thread. So, my question to you guys, is extend the same courtesy to Alex, rather than make unproductive statements about his playing when he was 14? As any of you know, there is no perfect Jazz musician, although, some may seem to come pretty close, right? We all have something new to learn every day, and Alex is no exception. If you really knew Alex, you'd find that he is a good kid and that he doesn't have any ego about his abilities or accomplishments...he just loves to play his horn, like any one of you. So, why should I care about what you think? Well, you don't know me, yet you do want to tell me what's on your mind. The same is true for me. Anyway, to Phathorn, Jim, and anyone else, I'm sorry that this whole thing got out of hand. Good luck in all your endeavors. John


          9. by EL Seano
            (255 posts)
            19 years ago

            Re: NEW SAX ARTIST ONLY 16!!

            Thankyou for being so forgiving. At least I learnt a lesson, that's to not judge a book by it's cover. Best of luck to you and Alex.


          10. by jbroad572
            (46 posts)
            19 years ago

            Re: NEW SAX ARTIST ONLY 16!!

            It's pretty easy to see why he would care. No matter how old or young I was, I know my father would always be ready to go to bat in my defense. Especially something he is proud of. I can completely understand the way JJ reacted, not to say that it was the right way to act. But he has already acknowledged that, so no need to kick a dead horse. I think everyone who originally posted, didn't expect to have Alex's father show up and after he did come and fight on behalf of his son, most people amended, or reworded, their thoughts and opinions. I personally only watched one video clip of Alex, mahjong. I thought it was very good. I could also understand what the guys were talking about regarding his intonation, playing with rhythm, and letting himself "go" to fully express himself. I think he will definitely far though. I will be listening to more of his clips later on. Glad to see everyone is getting along now. Now maybe JJ and Alex can contribute some positivity on the boards as well as everyone else giving help where help is needed.


          11. by Saxquest
            (420 posts)
            19 years ago

            Re: NEW SAX ARTIST ONLY 16!!

            OK, its generally my style to let these forums run their own course without too much interference. This one should have been shut down a long time ago. I still may delete the whole thing. For now, it has been edited and stands finished. As a professional saxophonist and jazz educator myself, I'm disappointed in the way most everyone has responded to this thread. You've brought me back into edit and that shouldn't have to be the case. Jazz is a language and is in its most basic form a means of self-expression that at its heart relies on sharing and communicating wtih others. How you interact not only musically but also socially defines who you are. Everyone, please remember that even though you're typing into a computer, you're talking to another human being and thus revealing a little bit about yourself in the process. Cheers, Mark Overton Saxquest, Inc.