Alright, so I'm clear with ya'll I only got seven years experience, which is a fraction of some of what you have but I am proud of what I CAN do and HOW I do it. I'm just getting around to using a metal mouthpiece, inverted ligs, new types of reeds, pro horns, etc, and I have learned from a lot of you. But Tango and all your other friends, I'm sorry, I have yet to learn anything from your remarks/comments. I have yet to see one piece of constructive crticism or one post that was not so highly skewed that it was impossible to interpret. I've learned more from folks like Jim and definition (the two that have responded here and the most two popular posters I've seen...they must know something). Jim, if ya want some back up gimme a call...I'd be willing to help ya put these Knights to shame and I got a new tenor on the way and boy I'll bet I can make her sing! *wave*

Ditto, bring it on. I have 30+ years as a musician, 20 of those spent professionally playing live and as a studio musician. I'm not sweating this jam session. ;)

Responce to saxman 88.The knights templar state the whole messages are in there if you dig deep and have the intellect to search.Any genuine top level jazz player will know and understand this. seven years to some is along time to others not long at all.All depends on your time and application and the ability to focus.When your ready to hear it you will here it until then your an apprentice like everyone else.May be if you work hard at it for long enough you may grasp the concept. some learn in the first 12 months if they hook up with the right pros.Honest playing is simple and complex .But there are no short cuts.The sooner you learn to play in what the experts call being in the zone the better.Otherwise you will spend your life never walking the tight rope correctly.You have got to be able to hear everything.The knights templar sugestpracticing the way bird and others learnt to play. Its the only true way.(BirdLives)

Alright, Tango, you just proved my point in two responses. Well, I understood the one ya wrote to me. But the one ya wrote Jim was just flat out degrating. Nothing wrong with funk at all in the music world...especially with a sax in your hands. You're missing out on the good stuff, Tango. Maybe you should go hang out at the Legit forum...since you're so strict and convicted to your meanings. Which seem worthless anyway. And just b/c we can't understand your third person POV makes us dumb? Please, spare me (us).

What's wrong with funk TANGO? Please do tell! I've made a lot of money playing funk, and I have enjoyed doing it! Songs like Play That Funky Music, Pick Up The Pieces, Skin Tight, Love Rollercoaster and a few other corny songs from the era. Yes, some of it's rather cheesy, but it's fun, especially when the horn players all dance around the bar and on top of tables and stuff! I'm not embarrassed to admit that I play funk, and that I enjoy it, and for a white guy, I'm pretty damn good at it!

Tango, Since you are so very fond of dispensing advice let me give you a little: A teacher of any worth and knowledge will always go out of their way to be concise and thorough in their curriculum so that any and all information is passed on to fresh minds with the utmost clarity. Your insistent use of cloaked identity and innuendos is evident of someone with a little bit of knowledge wrapped in a plethora of ignorance and jargon. Whatever your motives, you are not getting anywhere with your silly mien and crusades oriented spiels. Spare us, please.

Alright, I think I might just deliver the final blow right here right now. To Tango Inc: You're not welcome here. This is due to your arrogance and ignorance, as well as your degrating attitude towards others. You show no use to us, for you cannot educate any of us including myself. The only purpose you have is to annoy the crap out of us, which you are doing quite well. But now I think we've had enough. Obviously Jim has shot you down several times by now and I'd think you would get tired of it. But you persist to be rude, crude, and childish. I think the best thing, right here today, is to show yourself the door. Good day sir and God bless you. For I see no more wasting time in trying to figure you out, and I think the rest will agree with me; it's time for you to go.

Response to sax is my axe .The knights templar teaching are simple nothing tricky. The jazz musician is a savant by definition.The message has to delivered in certain ways .1 To get you to think.2.If you cant work it out you are not ready yet.3.no ones paying for the advice but if they were the student has to be shown practically and made ,thats right made to work it out for themselves.Some have been forced into this anyway because they have had no choice but others think well if i go to this guy or that guy and pay money they will get me to be a great player.Wrong Wrong Wrong.The theory people. The sooner musicians all get that into their heads the better for the whole world.But where back to culture again.The teachers you talk of all sound really nice and helpful and friendly etc etc.But to deliver a consise message, will not do the aspiring musician any good what so ever.Is sets a mind set that is totally against the correct use of right and left side or the brain. You people get off on attacking the knights and the order rather than discussing music and saxophone playing in general.You believe the knights to be ignorant.So be it. The Kights Templar and The Teutonic knights live. They will continue.Above all on this forum the knights are uncovering a predictable culture trend of a certain nation.Make of that what you will. Notice the knights always respond as Black C5 (Bird Lives)

Funk , The Knights have strict practices here.Black white colour of skin is of no consequence to the order.We are all the same.Colour of skin has no bearing on how someone plays.However culture is different.That has a very significant factor in playing music.Funk was a craze some years ago. Its a form of music and those who dig it fine.It is a form of music however that is limited in development.Once you explore creativity in jazz you become at the point of no return. Blues is on the same lines as jazz.Although in this contex a blues player realises 7, 9s and b9s dont exsist. When jazz players y drop in taking a blues gig sometimes neglect this.The Blues player uses endless other devices.However the concept of the band is like jazz.The 12/8 thing and all of that, if its done right..The trick if honest is to be able to have your audience able to dance if they wish. Stand or sit at the bar and dig musicianship, if jazz or blues. Funk is a music that creates limited exploration of the music and also limited expression.So the jazz and or blues musician is left unsatisfied. Also in funk the audience leaves the gig mixed. They dig the start but get caught in the monotony thing.The object the knights Templar say is to constantly take new as well as old audiences on a journey get them to dig it but to educate them on route is paramount.Otherwise we all go round in circles one step forward and 2 back

Templar dude, you need to get lost. This is seriously annoying. I come here looking for good discussions, and get your third person reject posts. You no longer have credibility, so just stop all this bs.

I just read your post TANGO, and once again, you have shown your ignorance. You say, "Funk is a music that creates limited exploration of the music and also limited expression. So the jazz and or blues musician is left unsatisfied." I really don't find that to be the case at all. One of my favorite pieces to play is "Pick Up The Pieces", and there is all kinds of room for interpretation and expression, and I flat out "kick ass" on that song! I am very satisfied when my audience is clapping, cheering and dancing; having a great time. I am very satisfied when the club manager hands me a check and says "You guys were fantastic, and we really enjoyed your music and can't wait to have you back!" Funk could easily be described as inovative jazz with the emotion of blues/soul. You said "Also in funk the audience leaves the gig mixed. They dig the start but get caught in the monotony thing." Again, I find that not to be the case at all. Wherever we play, the clubs are PACKED night after night. People want to come and dance and have a good time. We give them music they can dance to. We play everything from funk, blues, jazz, swing, classic rock, pop and bop. We have a song list of over 800 songs. Our 5 most requested songs? Play That Funky Music, Brick House, Pick Up The Pieces, Jump Jive and Whale, Zoot Suit Riot! Having played straight jazz, I can tell you that many people have a limited tolerance for jazz. The average person doesn't understand jazz and it's complexity. It's like a foreign language to them. The words might sound pretty to them but do they understand what's being said? Most often no. I love blues, and I could play blues all night; from Chicago swing stile to a slow 32 bar like Stormy Monday, I LOVE BLUES!!!Having played the finest blues clubs in Detroit and Chicago, I can tell you, blues music also has a limited tolerance. To really captivate an audience, you need to be diverse. Tango, you've managed to piss a lot of people off on this forum, and now people are asking you to leave. I'm not asking you to leave. You are entitled to your opinions, and as I have said before, I think you have made some good points. Can't you see though that you have lost a lot of credibility though with this KNIGHTS crap? I encourage you to drop the act, and stick around. We want to know what TANGO thinks, not the KNIGHTS! I think you owe a few people here an apology.

Response for conn sax man jim and the other guy wishing the knights to leave the forum.Read every thing the knights have posted on this site send in to people who are savants educated people.They dont have to be in the music business. Let them read it all in their own time then make a judgement on it.The knights state their ideas and facts and opinions.Its often the case that people with lack of intellect try to bully squash wipe people out or what ever because they cant cope.The knights Templar will continue.Its a matter for sax quest to remove the Knights Templar.Its their forum.What remove the knights using this forum because we have our opinions on music?Notice we only react in the sicillian way to attacks.To conn sax man jim if thats what you think musics about for you fine.The order dosent concern its self with this.Notice The knights did not start this topical thread only reacted in the true sicillian way.Its of great interest and amusement to us the volitile and abusive and racist comments that we have taken.Out of all the jazz sites and music sites in the world the knights have only been attacked on this site.So we think it uncovers a very interesting story.Again conn sax man jim using foul and abusive language to the knights Templar may make you feel better but really who does it show up. Notice the knights have never bothered with asking for apologies when our colour of skin and views are attacked. We realise its pointless. The move should always be Black c5 ( Bird Lives)

I see by reading your profile that you're a nobody. The way you deflected the challenges to a cutting session by ignoring them suggests that you are lacking in "moral fibre". When you try to talk about the music, you end up making pompous proclamations, suggesting self absorption. Your attitude towards funk suggests intolerance. Your inability to read properly an old Conn serial number suggests ignorance. And I still think you don't write worth beans. If connsaxman_jim needs a bass player at the cutting session, I'll be glad to back him, funk or 12/8!

I see by reading your profile that you're a nobody. The way you deflected the challenges to a cutting session by ignoring them suggests that you are lacking in "moral fibre". When you try to talk about the music, you end up making pompous proclamations, suggesting self absorption. Your attitude towards funk suggests intolerance. Your inability to read properly an old Conn serial number suggests ignorance. And I still think you don't write worth beans. If connsaxman_jim needs a bass player at the cutting session, I'll be glad to back him, funk or 12/8!

Well, I see that Tango has at last learned to spell "intellect". We'll throw him that bone. :) Seriously, at the end of the day Tango, your credibility is completely shot with the people on this forum. You are indeed one opinionated chap, which in of itself isn't a bad thing on a discussion forum. Even though you have displayed some pretty piss poor social skills with your previous ramblings, I agree with Jim. Were you to shed your silly facade and fairy tale writing style, most of us would like to sit down and have a normal discourse with the REAL you concerning Music, Saxophones, and life in the 21st Century. However, if you are going to behave like SAXMAN did, you too can just hit the road IMHO.

AMEN saxismyaxe, blackfrancis. I think TANGO hides behind the whole "KNIGHTS" personna because he's a less than mediocre player. Bring it on TANGO!!! I'm calling you out!!! I will spank you like a red-headed step-child and send you home crying to your mama! Drop the KNIGHTS crap, speak intellegently, and act like a real person, and you're welcom to stay! Otherwise, you jknow where the door is...don't let it hit ya where the good lord spits ya!

I don't intend on joining any fight, but why don't you all against tango sixty nine just complain to the moderators? Appearantly everyone is annoyed so that means moderators will have to kick mr. knight out. If tango really is a troll then when he/she/it gets kicked out no ones "feelings" are hurt.

Stratman, I might just do that...plus it's Tango Six One, not sixty nine ;)

TANGO is guilty of Bad information, insults, senseless rambing about the Knights, and just plain BEING AN ASS!!! He talks about jazz, bop and hard bop, but I think he has a few more lessons to learn about hard bop; like how it feels to be "hard bopped" over the head with his saxophone for being an IDIOT!

Add my name to the list. Let Mark know about this problem and I'm certain he will square it away in no time.

saxman88, i know its tange six one i just put sixty nine to joke around. :-) yeah add my name to the list too we shouldnt be wasting our time having to put up with templar man...

Sorry to kill the joke Stratman... I sent Mr. Scott an email (one of the mods) with a complaint and a link to this thread. However, he hasn't been on in some time. Let's hope action is taken soon. I didn't mention you guys's names, but I don't think I needed too...if and when he sees this he'll see the complaints. Let's hope this is taken care of once and for all!

Ni!

I sent Mark an email also. I haven't heard back from him yet.

I haven’t been around the forum much in a while but I am around to help when I can. As far as I can tell the Knights are annoying you all, but I don’t find them offensive. If anything, some of your attacks seem to be more personal than his replies. I am ending this post because it is not on topic. I will eventually delete it when I feel that everyone has had enough time to read this message. I have booted people for being offensive and will keep a better eye on this forum. Feel free to contact me if there is something you feel is offensive. Please include the text in your email that bothers you. I have read most of this post and may have missed something, but I didn’t see anything offensive. Then best thing you can do if you don’t like what someone has to say is give a detailed, cordial response stating why you disagree. Remember that everyone has an opinion, no matter how wrong you think they are! I also have found that ignoring people can be very affective if you find their posting to be annoying. Again, if I missed something offensive or too personal please let me know. Happy Posting! Scott