Saxophone Forum


by jazzplayer15
(27 posts)
18 years ago

How to improvise?

I'm kinda new at the whole improvising thing, and I don't think I learned how to do it right when I was first taught. When you improvise you improvise on a certain scale right? With certain notes? First off how do you know which scales your improvising on without asking your base player? That's probably a really stupid question. Oh well K

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  1. by thewoodswind
    (5 posts)

    18 years ago

    Re: How to improvise?

    well, theres really absolutely NO pattern to improvising. unless you really want a pattern. you just play what you want. but it does sound better if you follow a chord or riff structure.

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  2. by straightj23
    (103 posts)

    18 years ago

    Re: How to improvise?

    The easiest way to improvise is to follow what the melody is. In, say, Jingle Bells, you can take the melody and alter it little by little until you get a killer part going. I did that for Jingle Bell Rock for this holiday's concert and it turned out really well.

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  3. by YanagisawA-901
    (312 posts)

    18 years ago

    Re: How to improvise?

    theres a lot of different things you need to think about in improv.. but its really really simple once you get used to it your right.. you have to stick to a certain chord structure and scale pattern in different parts of a song.. if you have the lead music there will be chord changes written in each measure of a solo.. follow those accordingly.. (this means youll need to know pretty much all major and minor scales) sometimes there will be certain patterns in a chord progression such as a 2-5-1.. which will allow you to use ONE scale over the span of that progression.. but if your music doesnt have a solo chord progression written in.. just start playing in the key signature of the song the 1st time.. but then it would help to know the chords.. either go to a player who does have the chords, or ask your director for his score.. and then copy them off.. hope i helped

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    1. by CountSpatula
      (602 posts)

      18 years ago

      Re: How to improvise?

      Pretty much what he said, but if you cant read every chord change that well fast enough, you can just find the first chord where the solo starts and do a blues scale

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      1. by Sax Mom
        (964 posts)

        18 years ago

        Re: How to improvise?

        This may be obvious, but remember to transpose the chords to your instrument. Minor third below concert for Eb instruments, whole step above for Bb instruments.

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      2. by Sax Mom
        (964 posts)

        18 years ago

        Re: How to improvise?

        This may be obvious, but remember to transpose the chords to your instrument. Minor third below concert for Eb instruments, whole step above for Bb instruments. (That's if you're looking at the Bass player's music, or a concert pitch lead sheet.)

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        1. by YanagisawA-901
          (312 posts)

          18 years ago

          Re: How to improvise?

          you know, thats very interesting sax mom.. i knew about transposition and everything.. but the way you worded it.. i was always tought go a major 6th above.. same thing, they are direct inversions.. but i still find it interesting how some people teach one way and others teach another

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      3. by knorter
        (205 posts)

        18 years ago

        Re: How to improvise?

        This is ok advice for very basic chord changes but I think a more helpful approach would be to play the root and maybe the third for every chord when they are moving quickly. The blues scale doesn't teach the player about the quality of each chord. There is nothing wrong with the blues scale but it isn't a chord specific scale. The blues scale just doesn't sound good on certain progressions. Work on your chord tones. Kristy

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        1. by golferguy675
          (600 posts)

          18 years ago

          Re: How to improvise?

          On this "blues scale"... The blues scale is the spawn of satan...or Jamey Aebersold...not sure. Hehe, just kidding, Jamey's cool. But seriously, the sooner you blank that scale out of your mind the better off you are, because it's not a real scale. The b3 and the b5 and of course the b7 are used often, but just remember those steps and their qualities. You should never think "blues scale". My very first year of jazz, I mean way back, like 7th grade, my band director hook me on it, and it corrupted me, and it took me until probably my sophomore year of highschool to really get my stuff straight after that, and get all of that stuff out of my head. As for improv...there's just so much to cover, I would really suggest a good private instructor who knows they're stuff, if you've got access to such a player. I think I'm going to start another thread soon...just wondering what your approaches are to playing "outside", I think it would be interesting to here some different views...

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      4. by birdwho
        (15 posts)

        18 years ago

        Re: How to improvise?

        You really have to teach yourself to "improvise". Listen to recordings of the greats who played inside of the changes to get a lot of ideas on certain things you can do and build on that. If you want to be a good improviser it takes a lot of work and a lot of listening.

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        1. by EL Seano
          (255 posts)

          18 years ago

          Re: How to improvise?

          My advice...if your teacher tries to make you improvise using a blues scale, RUN AWAY! I started using a blues scale and this screwed me over it took me ages to learn how to play over chords (still having trouble sometimes, but hey im only 16). Seriously blues scale may be easy, but its not good in the long run. If I started learning chords first, i would be ahead of the level i am now.

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          1. by jacobeid
            (24 posts)

            18 years ago

            Re: How to improvise?

            It takes a long time to "learn" how to improv. First off, listen listen listen to all great players. Also, right stuff down. I know that doesn't sound much like improvisation, but it helps you learn what notes to lead into other chord changes, etc. Learn your scales, don't stick on blues scales, and when playing a blues scale never stick on the sharp 4. Also, you need to know a lot of theory. But don't be somebody who knows all theory but can't apply it. Mix your practice between actually playing and studying theory.

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            1. by jazzdude482
              (38 posts)

              18 years ago

              Re: How to improvise?

              i never really learned about chords and chord changes, blues scales.. Does anyone think that will affect me a lot or do i just have to listen to a whole bunch of jazz? Also, how long does it take to get the hang of improv because Im really starting to get tired of people telling me to play some jazz when i dont know how,but Im only 14 and a freshman in high school.

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            2. by kelsey
              (930 posts)

              18 years ago

              Re: How to improvise?

              Not knowing chords and scales will not affect you if you don't play Jazz. In fact, you can go your entire life without listening to Jazz if you think it's not enjoyable. At your present rate you will never get the hand of improv. Just tell the people who want you to play jazz that you are not interested in it and don't even like it. After all, your only 14 and a Freshman in High School....PS...Sell your horn..........Kelsey
              Barry Kelsey

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            3. by jazzdude482
              (38 posts)

              18 years ago

              Re: How to improvise?

              Wait a minute...I never said I didnt like jazz. In fact I love jazz, I'm just wondering how long it will take me to learn how to do improv because I really want to be able to play jazz. I mean I get this wonderful feeling just from the thought of it and i cant just say I didnt get offended when you said that I'll never get the hang of it. I was just stating that people always assume i can play jazz when I dont and I kind of feel a bit embarrassed when I tell them. But you can just forget the question....I'll just keep playing even if I dont ever get the hang of it...

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            4. by jazzdude482
              (38 posts)

              18 years ago

              Re: How to improvise?

              P.S..... I never had anyone to teach me the chords and things. I'd take lessons but dont have money to pay for it.

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            5. by landrusax
              (44 posts)

              18 years ago

              Re: How to improvise?

              To Jazzdude482, Don't let anyone sway your opinion of what you can do. People like kelsey obviously don't understand why people improvise. Impovisation is a means of expression, the scales, patterns and other tecnical aspects are only usefull to enable you to play what you really hear and want to play. I have always heard there are three points that make us who we are as players: What we practice, Who we play with, and who we listen to. If you want to learn to improvise, start by listening to the masters-go and buy a Lester Young, or Coleman Hawkins box set of CDs. You'll understand more of what you want to do after you have listed to the history of jazz. Anyone who says that you don't need to know scales and chords if you don't play jazz is ignorant. I work with many professional classical musicians and they all have mastered scales, arpegios, chords etc. for technique on the instrument. Start improvising on the Blues. This is a standard form that you will use the rest of your life, and it helps you understand all jazz therafter. If you're not familiar with the Jamey Aebersold series of jazz play along CD's, that is a great place to start. Don't ever give up and follow your heart. Peace, B

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            6. by jazzdude482
              (38 posts)

              18 years ago

              Re: How to improvise?

              thanks

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            7. by kelsey
              (930 posts)

              18 years ago

              Re: How to improvise?

              I'm glad you love Jazz. I love it myself. Sorry I didn't understand your question. Hang in there! It can take many years to be a good Jazz player, it takes many years to do anything well....flutman
              Barry Kelsey

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