Yes the 4m was the pro sop. Pre 1949 horns had rolled tone hole. Any questions just ask and someone will answer whether its me or Jim or one of the others. There are so many different questions about conn it would take years to answer them all Dave

I have received a lot of emails asking for information about various Conn models. There are many great sites on the web that offer good information. One of the best sites that I have found is www.saxpics.com, which is where I found most of this information. Here are the different Conn models: The Worchester horns: The first Conn saxophones were the Worchester models made in Worchester, Massachusetts from 1888-1895. They were designed by Ferdinand "Gus" Buescher, a foreman at the Conn-Dupont plant from 1875-1895 (after which, he left and founded the Buescher Manufacturing company). The Worchester horn was essentially a copy of an Adolph Sax horn. These horns were produced from 1888 until approx. 1898 and they probably were only available in bare brass, gold plate and gold plate engraved with silver highlights. These horns have double-octave keys, straight tone holes, no pearl keys and all examples probably featured a keyed range of low Bb to altissimo F. They are extremely rare; almost non-existant. The Wonder: Conn exhibited alto and tenor models at the 1893 World’s Columbia Exhibition under the model name "Wonder" (trademarked Feburary 1, 1891), and in 1894 advertised a line of "Wonder Improved System" saxophones which included a straight soprano, alto, Bb tenor, and baritone models. These instruments were available in silver plate with gold plated keys, silver plate, nickel plate, and polished brass (full gold plate was introduced around 1907). Only the alto and tenor models were keyed to high F, the rest of the line was limited to high E flat. In 1907 Conn advertised a family of saxophones that included a curved soprano; which replaced the previous straight model, a C Melody, and a bass, in addition to the standard alto, tenor, and baritone models. These horns feature the automatic octave key and a forked Eb mechanism. The keyed range on these horns was extended to altissimo F, excepting baritone and bass models. The G# trill key was added around 1913. The Wonder series was sold until the introduction of the New Wonder series horns in 1917. What does the letter “L” or “H” mean? Conn offered saxophones in both Low Pitch (A=440hz), and in High Pitch (A=457hz) This is the "L" or "H" on the back of the horn near the serial number. The "L" for low pitch is most common, and low pitch is the standard that is used today. HIGH PITCH instruments were still available through the first few years of the "Naked Lady" horns, even though A=440 (low pitch) was an accepted standard by the early 1920's. The New Invention: On May 22, 1910 a fire destroyed the Conn plant. The plant was rebuilt soon after, though, and Conn produced a limited editon of horns for the rest of the year (and through some of 1912, it seems) to celebrate their rebirth: the New Invention model. Conn serial number and model data may have been destroyed, as well. Serial number and model charts may not be entirely accurate. The Union Label: The Metal Polishers, Brass Workers and Plater’s Union of Elkhart was organized in 1901. Conn became the first company of its kind to open its doors exclusively to the use of union labor. A new union was established: Local No. 335 of the Metal Polishers, Buffers, Platers, Brass Moulders, Brass and Silver Workers International Union of North America. Instruments manufactured between 1906 and 1916 bear a union label. Col. CG Conn retired on August 17, 1915, selling the company, the capital stock of which was fixed at $1,000,000. Carl Dimond Greenleaf (1876-1959) who was the principal stockholder purchased the instrument factory, as well as almost all of Col. Conn's other Elkhart investments. The business was renamed C. G. Conn Ltd., a seemingly minor name change, yet one which was clearly marked on instruments and advertising materials produced after 1915. The New Wonder: By 1917, Conn was advertising that "the saxophone department has been quadrupled in size", and the 1918 catalog references the introduction of a straight soprano in E flat and a straight soprano in C. This catalog also makes mention of the Conn Microtuner and the Conn Resopad, both hailed as significant advances. These horns are referred to by Conn as "New Wonder" models. Conn saxophones of this era were seen with both soldered and drawn tone holes. The drawn tone holes are referenced by a patent engraved on the body tube (1,119,954 December 8, 1914) which was actually held by William S. Haynes, the flutemaker, and licensed to Conn. Rolled tone holes were introduced around 1917, first on the alto. Straight tone holes were often found on other pitches for a few more years. The New Wonder saw many changes in 1922. The Conn Vacuum pad was designed to be installed without adhesives. The straight neck C Melody also made its debut in this year. During this period, Conn saxophones were often seen with spectacular engravings, and considerable experimentation was carried out in manufacturing techniques and design improvements. Conn was unique among American manufacturers in that a full time laboratory with a staff of six was maintained to pursue design improvements. Pearl keys appeared around 1917 with the beginning of the New Wonder series I. The Series I horns featured a "Smooth" G# key. The nail-file G# is a characteristic of the "Series II" (Chu Berry) New Wonder horns. There are at least seven standard engraving styles that are slightly varied as this series progresses. The most common engraving pattern is a floral design. "Portrait" engraved horns are finished in what is officially called the "Artists' Finish", by Conn. This is supposed to be just a gold-plated finish with elaborate engraving. Available finishes for the New Wonder were bare brass, nickel plate, silver plate (both satin and burnished), two-tone" silver plate with gold highlights and/or keywork and gold plate (both satin and burnished). After 1922 or so, one of six different colors of enamel over silver, brass or gold (sometimes hand painted, as well), was also available. These are extremely rare also. There are essentially four varities of New Wonder Series II instruments: "Standard" New Wonder instruments. These are instruments with "standard" Conn engraving (one of about four "standard" designs, ranging from just "CG Conn, Ltd." to the very elaborate) and without additional pearl keytouches on side keys. These horns are sometimes called "Chu Berry" horns, but they shouldn't be: Mr. Berry played a "transitional" model tenor. New Wonder Artist's Special models. An official model name from Conn referring to a finish: the heavily engraved, gold-plated and elaborately engraved silver-plated and silver plated with gold keywork or gold highlights versions of the New Wonder horns (occassionally referred to as "finish 00" in Conn catalogs or, unoffically, the Portrait model). New Wonder Virtuoso Deluxe models. An official model name from Conn referring to a finish: the heavily engraved, gold-plated New Wonder horns that boasted additional pearl keytouches (occasionally referred to as "finish 000" in Conn catalogs). s/n 235xxx to 262xxx "New Wonder Transitional" models. Conn referred to these horns with just a model number (e.g. "6M" for an alto), but during this period of manufacture, both split- and same-side bell key horns were available, and they have a variety of engraving differences from later 6M models, so this is an invented, albeit quite common, name. Actually, Conn began experimenting with different saxophone designs as early as 1928. Normally the first changes were seen on the alto saxophones. All of these horns had rolled tone holes and "nail-file" G# keys. Most altos had microtuner necks (the ones that do not have a microtuner in this serial number range are said to have a "New York Style" neck and are somewhat rare) and baritone and tenor models had tuneable mouthpieces available from the factory. There were several finish choices available for Conn's horns, up until the "Transitional" era. From least to most expensive, they were (names in quotes are what Conn called them): -Bare brass - "Finish 6", nickle plate - "Finish 2", burnished ("sand blast velvet finish") silver plate with gold wash in bell - Colored enamel (white, black, green, purple, rose and possibly others) over a brass, silver or gold body - "Finish 1", burnished silver plate with gold posts, keys and engraving background. - Gold wash over a "Finish 1" body with extensive engraving (extremely rare; probably "special order" only. Not listed in Conn catalogs) - "Finish 0", satin finish gold plate with interior of bell, keys, posts and engraving background hand burnished - "Finish 00", burnished gold plate throughout with elaborate engraving (Conn refers to this as the "Artist's Special" finish in their catalogs) - Burnished silver plate body with elaborate engraving (a "special order" version of the "Artist's Special" finish not listed in Conn catalogs) - Burnished silver plate with gold posts, keys and engraving background with elaborate engraving (a "special order" version of the "Artist's Special" finish not listed in Conn catalogs) - "Finish 000", burnished gold plate throughout with additional pearl keytouches (Conn refers to this as the "Virtuoso Deluxe" finish in their catalogs) - Burnished silver plate body and engraving background plus additional pearl keytouches (a "special order" version of the "Virtuoso Deluxe" finish not listed in Conn catalogs) - Burnished silver plate with gold posts, keys and engraving background plus additional pearl keytouches (a "special order" version of the "Virtuoso Deluxe" finish not listed in Conn catalogs) Finish 00 and 000 were available only as special order, thus there are comparatively few of these horns. There are also few surviving bare brass, nickle, enamelled or gold washed horns. Brass and nickle were the lowest priced horns (at the time), were intended primarily for the home market, thus most didn't survive into the 21st century. These horns in excellent shape now tend to command a premium over the silver plated horns! You can occasionally find a horn with a lacquer body and nickle or silver keys. These horns have been relacquered, done in the style of a newer (i.e. made after 1955) Conn. Some examples have also been painted, but Conn originally used an enamel on some horns, similar to fingernail polish, NOT paint or colored lacquer. In any event, these horns typify the Big Band sound: you can put a lot of air through them and get a big sound. These horns are generally more technically advanced than others of the same era and were produced in extremely large quantities (excepting the enamel, gold wash and finish 00/000 models). This means that you can get an extremely high quality professional horn at a relatively low price -- and that you can find a lot of them, mainly in silver plate. In an attempt to recapture what he saw as a declining saxophone market in the late 1920s, Greenleaf introduced the F-mezzo-soprano saxophone, an improved soprano in B-flat, and the unusual Conn-O-Sax. The latter was a hybrid cross between the saxophone, the English horn, and the heckelphone, based on a patent filed in 1913 by his predecessor, Col. Conn. Unfortunately, these particular models, initiated during Greenleaf's "new era," did not survive the fall of the stock market and the subsequent Great Depression. 4/6/10/11/12/14M "Naked Lady" or Artist Models Serial number ranges: 263xxx to Pxxx for 6M alto, 10M tenor and 12M baritone 1968 to 1974 for the 11M baritone and 263xxx to 300xxx for 4M curved soprano and 14M bass The M series horns were available in a variety of finishes; lacquer (bare brass is discontinued as an option), lacquer body with nickel-plated keywork, nickel plate (rare), silver plate (with or without gold-wash bell), silver plate with nickel-plated keywork, and gold plate. “M” Series Time Line (from saxpics.com) 1935: The 6M design was finalized toward the end of the Transitional period and the 12M design was finalized even earlier -- though both horns did have minor keywork changes -- but the tenor wasn't finalized until about s/n 263xxx, when its bell keys were switched to the RH side of the horn. This change announced the coming of Conn's most famous series of horns: the M series or "Naked Lady" model (so named for the engraving of a nude female portrait in a pentagon on the bell). According to later Conn catalogs (after 1959), these horns are officially called the "Artist" model, but "Naked Lady" is the most commonly used name people use. 1935/6 (around s/n 270xxx): Coinciding with the introduction of the 26M, the underslung octave key on the 6M alto is discontinued. It is brought back the next year. The "over-the-top" octave key appears to remain a custom option throughout the life of the 6M. 1941/2 (around s/n 300xxx): Conn discontinues the 4M curved soprano and the 14M bass. The 4M and 14M are probably still available until Conn was bought by MacMillian in 1969, based on advertisements, but only as special order items -- and still based on the older New Wonder tooling. 1942 to 1945: Conn retools for the World War II war effort. Musical instrument manufacture slows to a crawl (appx. 6,000 during this entire period, down from almost 4,000 per year) Late 1946 to Early 1947: Union strike at Conn that lasts for 110 days. Appx. 3,800 horns are manufactured during this time 1948: Conn stopped using rolled tone holes. There is ancedotal evidence that a shop worker accidentially broke the mold for the 10M, and the replacement was refabricated without rolled tone holes, and this design was propagated to the other Conn models. 1954: Microtuner necks vanish from the 6M 1955 (approximately): Conn introduced the 16M tenor and 14M alto Director models (with the "Shooting Star" engraving) and ushered in two new plating choices that were probably available on all the Conn line: lacquer body with nickel-plated keys (finish 25) and silver body with nickel-plated keys (finish 56) It is probable that all other finish choices were considered "custom order" after this date. 1959/60: 10M's feature a redesigned double-socket neck with an underslung octave key. 1963: Conn introduces sheet-metal keyguards and a different bell-to-body brace on all models, although horns with wire keyguards and the "original" bell-to-body brace are still available until at least 1969 (possibly 1971), as Conn seems to be "clearing inventory" and producing models with the "new" design when they run low on the "old" design. (Please note that Conn horns with sheet-metal keyguards are GENERALLY considered to be relatively low-quality horns, with the exception of the 92/94/108/110M. This may not be the case with 6/10M's of this vintage, but watch out. Also note that the 12M was probably never available with SMK.) 1968: Conn introduces the 11M low A baritone. This is essentially a 12M with an extension, different engraving and Finish 25. 1969: Sale of the Conn company to the Crowell-Collier MacMillan Company. Company production starts to be completely transitioned to the Nogales, Arizona plant. 1971: The last saxophone is produced in Elkhart and the Conn-made "pro" horns are discontinued. The 26M (alto) and 30M (tenor) Connqueror Models: This horn is the big brother to the 6/10M (there are no Connqueror sopranos, baritones or basses). It's essentially the same horn, but with more features: -Silver keytouches -Adjustment screws for EVERYTHING. - Adjustable thumbrest - Underslung octave key on all horns - Enlarged G# cluster - Stunning intonation These horns also appear to have a variation on the model VIII neck, used on the best 6M altos.These horns were available in lacquer with silver keytouches, silver plate and gold plate, but horns in anything other than lacquer are rare to the point of being ludicrous. Gold plated horns may also feature custom engraving 1950-1952 Connstellation 28M (alto) The 28M Connstellation was designed with input from Santy Runyon (the same gentleman who helped design an SML stencil and the maker of mouthpieces-o-plenty), but primarily by Hugh Loney, with reference to many Allen Loomis patents. It is possibly the rarest and most sought after Conn alto. It is also completely different from any other Conn available. The Connstellation features an underslung octave key, but no microtuner neck, straight tone holes and a “slick” balanced action. Players have commented that the horn plays like each key had been sprayed with WD-40. That's a good thing! The keywork is very different from any other Conn, and the horn's signature: a large plastic keyguard (patented) on the LH side of the horn that covers the bell keys and low keyrods. This guard is decorated with gold filigree and the Conn "three marching guys."As mentioned, this horn is quite rare. Expect to pay $3500 US for a 28M Connstellation in good shape if you can find one! ONLY alto models were produced (patent drawings do suggest a tenor in the making, but no such horn was ever produced.) The Directors models (14M alto, 16M tenor) were first introduced in 1955. They were an updated version of the Pan American horns of the 1930’s. Earlier models are very good players, better than many other intermediate models of the time. The later models with serial prefix “M” (1969) and later that were made in Nogales are not so good. Daniel Henkin purchased the Conn Company from MacMillan in 1980. With every intention of resurrecting and reestablishing the Conn company in Elkhart, Henkin hosted an extravagant "Welcome Home Conn Week" in Elkhart in May of 1981. He eventually brought the corporate offices back to Elkhart, appointed popular "Tonight Show" band leader Doc Severinsen as Vice President of Product Development, introduced the Severinsen trumpet and Henkin student clarinet, and attempted to strengthen Conn's holdings with the acquisition of both the W. T. Armstrong Company (1981) and King Musical Instruments (1985). However, citing medical reasons as well as his decision "to become a free man," Elkhart's self-proclaimed "Music Man" sold his extensive holdings in October 1985 to the Swedish conglomerate, Skäne Gripen which became UMI for a short time until purchased recently by the Selmer Company. Here are a couple more links to some very good sites. A complete list of Conn serial numbers can now be found on the Conn website. www.cgconn.com Dr. Rick’s site also has a lot of useful information. www.drrick.com Saxpics has a lot of helpful information and photos www.saxpics.com And for a detailed history of the Conn company: www.usd.edu/~mbanks/CONTENT.html

Jim, I have a Conn tenor serial # M151732 that has all the extra pearl touches on every key and engraving from the bell to the octave thumbrest, but the horn is satin silver with a burnished silver bell. Would this horn be considered a virtuoso deluxe?

Yes, that would be considered virtuoso deluxe also. There were very few that were silver. Most were gold plated.

Please tell me he did not type all of that....

Jim, I think he was talking about the Rare 6m Conn Bird from Brazil. It has a off colored hump in it's back and flys west for the summer. I don't know what all this crazy saxophone instrument stuff your talking about. I hope you didn't send alot of time writing it. Seriously, why doesn't Saxquest have a Article section so Jim doesn't have to Copy/Paste so much of this info.

Sax Shark and Radjammin, I am in the process of making my own webpage. I have decided to share my "shrine" and my knowledge with the rest of the world! I did type most of that! I can type fast, so I didn't spend too much time! Some I pasted, after I read it to make sure it was accurate. Saxpics had Conn purchasing the Best manufacturing company in Nogales in 1959, but that is incorrect. Best was purchased in 1968. Instruments made up until 1969, or serial prefix "M" were still made in Elkhart. Production eventually moved from Nogales and by 1974, Mexico. An article section would be nice.

Jim, could you please tell me and others when this webpage would be available? I'd love to learn more about Conn's, as I just got a very nice 6M for Christmas :-) Sean

I will post the link when the site is complete. Right now, I'm just trying to get everything together. Thanks, Jim

Another good site is www.xs4all.nl/~cderksen/ConnSaxophone.html which has a link to the conn section on saxpics Dave

Hello, I've been enjoying this site and discussion for a few weeks now. I have an old conn 10M #272897, according to the serial #'s it is around 1936. My dad bought it for me when I was in high school 32 years ago. It sat at the school where I teach for the past 25 years, and once in a while I would lend it to a student and I just forgot about it. I play clarinet professionally, and teach, but have started playing clarinet in a jazz combo and they want me to double on sax. Needless to say, when I figured what I had in my old tenor, I sent it off immediately to get an overhaul (not relacquer) and adjustment. I'm anxious to get it back and get after it. Everything I've read about these horns suggests that the mouthpieces should be open without baffles. I'm planning on using a selmer c* mouthpiece for transition to start out with. My history of tenor playing is fairly unsuccessful. I think when I tried to play this instrument before it was poorly repaired, I was using a bad mouthpiece, or I could never make the adjustments to embouchure as a younger player. When I get it I plan on starting out with developing vibrato and long tones in low register to build some kind of comfort level in the low register, mainly because that was where I really stunk the place up the first time around. Any other suggestions? As a music educator I have really enjoyed and appreciated this forum. Thanks,

I'm sure that you'll get lots of advice from that post. I have a 10M #275xxx and my berg larsen 95-0-M works the best for me, maybe because I have a large overbite. I use to have a C* Selmer mouthpiece but I gave it away with an old silvertone Buescher stencil, that I sold to a friend. It seemed to work fine down low, but that was all it did well, for me anyway. I just couldn't make it sing till I used the metal Berg.

I've got an otto link 5 rubber mpc that I can borrow from a friend if the selmer doesn't do the trick. I will try the larsen mpc as well. I've never really been on a mouthpiece search like this one, at least not on clarinet. Is there a company out there where you can borrow 3 mouthpieces for a length of time, try them out, then return 2? My setup on clarinet is usually an open mouthpiece with 3 vandoren. So I'm looking for an open easy blowing responsive mouthpiece for jazz. I'll look into the metal berg. Thanks

The Selmer C* may cause a few problems with intonation. Conn 10M's like a mouthpiece with a fairly large chamber. The Otto Link should do well. For a jazz mouthpiece, I would recommend the Jody Jazz ESP. I spoke with Jody regarding this piece, and he told me that he designed the piece specifically for a Conn 10M. They are a little pricey, but a great mouthpiece. The Otto Link Super Tone Master is also a great piece for the Conn 10M. Just be careful of those pieces with baffels and resonators, and small chambers, because they do not work so well on the older horns.

Right now I'm practicing on a yamaha student tenor 21 to try to make the embochure adjustments for when the horn gets back from the repair. The selmer C* is working pretty well. I tried the Otto Link this afternoon with a 2 vandoren and didn't have a lot of luck. I've also tried the a selmer C* metal jazz mouthpiece with even less luck. I guess the thing to do is wait until I get the 10m and see what works personally. I'm not frustrated with this, I'm just really interested to see what is going to work. Since I just discovered what I owned a few weeks ago I'm really looking forward to the experience. I think this is really going to help me as a teacher as well. I plan on moving up at least to a 2 1/2 or possibly 3 once I get to playing my regular horn and see how things shake out. the really cool thing is that the horn turns 70 this year and I turn 50. It's going to be a fun midlife crisis project. Thanks for all the information and advice!

I always like to give people twice my age as much advice as possible, lol. I am a sax player with several years on clarinet. I am not saying I got the fingers to play like a legit clarinet but I do have a good legit and jazz sound on clarinet. Some of my friends in college used to joke I sounded better on clarinet. Damn them!!! I can only say I had a good Clarinet teacher in college. He knew I was just picking it up as a double and taught me what was most important, to sound good on clarinet. Tounging and proper embouchure. Concerning the 10M, your dealing with vintage horns so my own personal taste is a large chamber with an open facing. A close ceiling like your baffle comments I would not suggest. I think that type of mouthpiece would sound better on something a little bit newer. Plus what kind of sound you going for? A rock sound or Jazz sound? I would say stick with the 2.5 as you will get a much fatter sound then on a reedy 3. Just remember in Jazz you want a big sound, something that come easier on 2.5 then 3. I think the C* facing is not going to be open enough for jazz. I play on my C* for legit, and sometime go off on Jazz but it always feel tiny. Clean but tiny, like no projection. I don't think I would preform on it. Also question about your mouthpiece placement, sometimes I notice clarinet players sometime put the mouthpiece too vertical in their mouth. I'm not saying your doing this, just make sure your place it at a right angle and use the front of your tongue to tongue as appose to the tip like on clarinet. Any of this help? I hope so.

Yes this does help a great deal. I am looking for a jazz sound since I am going to try playing in a small combo. I've really been trying to do a lot of listening the past few weeks and I'm looking for a Lester Young type of sound with this group. I've also been listening to Getz a lot. What's your recommendation for a large chamber mouthpiece with an open facing? I've experimented with embochure and mouthpiece placement the past week or so on this yamaha horn and I'm getting a bit closer, but still not the sound I want.

Also (pertaining to the age question) the people I've known in the music business that continue to grow and improve are the ones that stay open to knowledge from any source regardless of age of person, whether it's a young pup or an old fart, so your time, advice and expertise is very much appreciated. thanks,

On some of his earlier recordings, Stan Getz played a Conn 10M with an Otto Link Super Tone Master. This is what I play; a 1948 Conn 10M with a Super Tone Master #5 and LaVoz medium reeds. The sound is incredible! It's not overly bright or raspy, but bold and powerful with good intonation and response from the lowest Bb through altissimo A. It really sounds sweet on the low end. It's the ideal sound for the old 50's rock and roll, blues and bebop that I love to play.

When It gets out of the shop, that's exactly what I'm going to try! Many thanks! p.s. I really enjoy your postings and this web site