Saxophone Forum


by bubbamets5505
(19 posts)
18 years ago

Improvisation?

I'm trying to learn how to improvise but everytime I look for answers to my questions I get a lot of, you need to listen and stuff about chords. I really need someone to tell me very simply how to improvise.

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  1. by Sax_Shark
    (134 posts)

    18 years ago

    Re: Improvisation?

    I'm going to tell you to listen to other, more expierienced players improv. Chords and such will come soon enough. That will require study and time. A good thing to do is find the melody and incorporate it into your solo. Have your own rips off of that melody and other than that, make stuff up. There's no easy answer. Just keep playing and listening and most will come in time.

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  2. by connsaxman_jim
    (2336 posts)

    18 years ago

    Re: Improvisation?

    That's impossible. Nobody can tell you how to improvise. You have to develope an ear for it, and the best way to do that is to listen and practice you scales. That's the best advice you're going to get.

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    1. by bubbamets5505
      (19 posts)

      18 years ago

      Re: Improvisation?

      So how do I use the marks for chords above music for improvisation?

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      1. by JeremyA
        (28 posts)

        18 years ago

        Re: Improvisation?

        The marks above the music are called lead sheet symbols. The note in the lead sheet symbol is the root of the chord. This is the first note in the chord. It will also say what chord it is. A C would be a C major triad (C E G), Cm or c (C Eb G), C dim (C Eb Gb). A 7 is a dominant seventh chord (1 3 5 b7), maj 7 is a major seventh (1 3 5 7), m 7 is a minor seventh (1 b3 5 b7), dim 7 is a fully diminished seventh (1 b3 b5 bb7), m 7 b 5 is half diminished seventh (1 b3 b5 b7). By the way the numbers stand for notes in scale ex. C m7=C Eb G Bb. Sometimes you will see something like a C/G. This is basically just a C major triad (C E G) but inverted. G C E instead of C E G. Ninth, eleventh, and thirteenth chords are just seventh chords with an added ninth, eleventh, and/or thirteenth. Also the chords themselves are derived from certain scales and modes. The C maj7 comes from the C major scale, the C m7 comes from the c minor scale, the C 7 comes from the C mixolydian scale, etc. I hope at least some of what I said can help you.

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        1. by connsaxman_jim
          (2336 posts)

          18 years ago

          Re: Improvisation?

          You explained that very well Jeremy. Bubbamets, the one thing that really helped me learn improv was playing keyboard. If you look at a piano keyboard, it's a lot easier to see what he's talking about. If you understand the chord structures, you can easily find the notes and learn the scales on a keyboard.

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        2. by bubbamets5505
          (19 posts)

          18 years ago

          Re: Improvisation?

          Thank you very much for the help. My sister has a keyboard maybe she will let me use it to learn some chords. thanks again.

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        3. by bubbamets5505
          (19 posts)

          18 years ago

          Re: Improvisation?

          By the way what do dominant & diminished mean?

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        4. by JeremyA
          (28 posts)

          18 years ago

          Re: Improvisation?

          A dominant seventh chord is called that because it contains a flatted seventh. A diminished chord is a minor chord with a flat fifth so it is called a diminished chord. A fully diminished seventh chord is called that because it contains a diminshed triad and a double flatted seventh ex. C Eb Gb Bbb (A). A half diminsihed chord is called that because it contains a diminished triad as well but has a flatted seventh.

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        5. by bubbamets5505
          (19 posts)

          18 years ago

          Re: Improvisation?

          Thank you very much you have been a great help.

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        6. by barimachine
          (323 posts)

          18 years ago

          Re: Improvisation?

          another important tip to add on to what jeremy was saying ii-V7-1's are a huge thing in jazz when he uses minors he means the dorian mode minor(wellfor now). this is the ii and mixolydian is the V. the major is the I what this means is that they are *basically* all the major scale starting on a different degree. so when you see a D-(d minor the ii), or a G7(the V) and a CMaj(I) they are all from the C scale. like the G7 is a c major scale starting on a G(all natural) and the D- is a based of a C major scale starting on D. Its common when you see those being thrown at you to freak by the chords on the page when you can really play the C scale over it. also my tip just to get you started... but this may become your curse so beware... is start with the blues in an easy key like Bb(concert key) if your playing tenor this would (in simplest terms) go by bar|C7|C7|C7|C7|F7|F7|C7|C7|G7|G7|C7|C7| (please dont go nuts about what i put up there guys who know more changes to put in there just keep it simple) now this means for the first for measures your in a F concert key(1flat)(the C7 is the V of F) then your in F7 for two so thats a Bb Major key(2 flats) then back to C7 then you go to G7 for two which is in the key of C so all natural then you return again to C7 now the fun part that can become a coffin to break out of if you rely on it is the blues scale/ minor pentatonic scale you take the first chord you see C7 now (ok this is a wierd way to do it but im only going from minor scales here to keep it simple) the C so take the notes from C major now play the 1 b3,4,(#4/b5(thats the blue note without it it is a minor pentatonic scale, which is fine use tast with this note)),5, b7, 8(1). (C, Eb,F,(F#),G,Bb,C is the minor pentatonic/blues scale for a Bb blues (the one that starts on C7 why is this scale good for starting improv and playing blues because you dont have to change key you can play that scale all the way through all the chords and it will sound good i would explain this but I dont know how much theory you know and all that jazz (haha) but just listen and try it. sorry that I wrote this very confusingly its late and i just thought i should try and help

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        7. by bubbamets5505
          (19 posts)

          18 years ago

          Re: Improvisation?

          Thanks all of you for your help I will try what you said.

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        8. by JeremyA
          (28 posts)

          18 years ago

          Re: Improvisation?

          We've been giving you a healthy dose of jazz theory, but don't get overwhelmed by the theory side of improv and music. I recently went to a jazz clinic in north Georgia that was part of the jazz all state audition. The guest clinician was a professor of jazz studies at USC. We got to hear him talk for a while and he played some too, but one he said was that when you're improving don't think too much about the theory side of improv because by the time your done thinking about one chord, the rhythm section will have gone on to the next chord. The theory stuff is good to know but also remember that a lot of jazz heavyweights did not ever take the time to learn the theory. They just played what sounded good. One of my favorites Zoot Sims was that way. Another thing the guy said was that jazz is a language and when you are talking you don't stop and think okay well a need a subject and a verb and I should probably use a adjective or two. Jazz should be the same way, but obviously this takes time and don't stress it because everyone is bad at improving when they start.

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        9. by kelsey
          (930 posts)

          18 years ago

          Re: Improvisation?

          In the good old days nobody taught you how to improvise. You just listened to records, went to jam sessions and practiced by yourself learning the licks you heard on the records. Back then every guy ended up with his own style. But it was hard to make a living playing Jazz so alot of the players became educators in order to live. The player educator had to go back and figure out what he was doing in order to explain it to others. A system developed. The trouble with it is that most young players who have learned by the system all sound alike. Since Jazz is self expression the system had a negative effect on the art form. Any one can be taught to improvise to some extent. To come up with a unique style is very hard. I wish there were more listeners and less so called Jazz players........Kelsey
          Barry Kelsey

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