Saxophone Forum


by Bebopper57
(3 posts)
18 years ago

Where are all their Saxes now?

As I am new to this forum, please excuse me if this topic has been discussed before. I've been wondering where are all the favmous past Musician's saxophones today? Where are all the tenors John Coltrane played? Charlie Parker's Altos?, Lester Young's, Dextor Gordon's, Ben Webster's, etc.? Does anybody know? I've heard some of them had the instruments placed in their coffins with them? Is that true? What a shame if it is...

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  1. by swingstreet
    (315 posts)

    18 years ago

    Re: Where are all their Saxes now?

    Maybe someone here can do a bit of detective work and find out where the horns of the following may be now? Lester Young's Chu Berry Chu Berry's Chu Berry Cannonball's Super 20 Coleman Hawkin's Super Balanced Action Paul Desmond's Mark VI Art Pepper's The Martin Bird's Conn 6M Ben Webster's Balanced Action Gerry Mulligan's 12M Johnny Hodges Beuscher Aristocrat I know Dexter Gordon had 2 Conn 10M's, and those are the horns you hear on his classic Blue Note recordings, and that they were stolen in Paris, forcing him to buy Selmer. I always theorized that the horns were stolen by someone from the Selmer company so that Dexter would have to switch to Selmer. I always wondered if there is someone in the world now, or at least in Paris, who is now playing one of those stolen 10M's, knowingly or unknowingly.

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  2. by Donnie The B
    (282 posts)

    18 years ago

    Re: Where are all their Saxes now?

    Ordinarily would have no comment here, but happen to have noticed Boots Randolph's Selmer SBA is currently for sale on EBAY. Some guy bid $15,000 on this tenor. I guess he can have it.

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    1. by connsaxman_jim
      (2336 posts)

      18 years ago

      Re: Where are all their Saxes now?

      $15,100 for a horn that may or may not have actually belonged to Boots Randolph, that has been relacquered once, and looks to have a fair amount of lacquer wear and scratches! That's crazy! If the horn did actually belong to Boots Randolph, I would want to see some documentation, or a picture of him playing it, to authenticate it! Otherwise, I have Bird's 6M for sale.....It's been professionally relacquered and overhauled. It plays great! I'll let it go for.....$20,000!!!

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      1. by connsaxman_jim
        (2336 posts)

        18 years ago

        Re: Where are all their Saxes now?

        Now, before I am flooded with emails asking me if I really DO own Bird's horn: I don't have any proof that the horn belonged to Bird, or any reason to even suspect as much. I do know that the horn was purchased from a pawn shop in New York many years ago. It was in need of an overhaul and had very little lacquer left when I got it, but the price was right. It may very well have belonged to Bird! She sure sings like a Bird! Whenever I'm playing blues or jazz, my hands just seem to flow across the keys as if they were being guided by Bird! Ok....$15,000??? Any buyers???

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        1. by swingstreet
          (315 posts)

          18 years ago

          Re: Where are all their Saxes now?

          In that case, it's quite possible that I have Art Pepper's The Martin, the model he made famous on his most famous recording, Art Pepper Meets The Rhythm Section. I mean, the horn was made in the mid 50's, and given the condition it was in before it was overhauled, it's possible that some junkies got a hold of it after Art went to prison, and then sold it for drugs, and it took a long and winding journey before getting into my hands. I'll take $25,000 for ir.

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      2. by connsaxman_jim
        (2336 posts)

        18 years ago

        Re: Where are all their Saxes now?

        That is an interesting question, Bebopper. I can't really speak for any of the names that you mentioned, although I too would like to know what happened to them; being a collector. I would not be too surprised to learn that a few players were in fact buried with their favorite horns, but I think that more often, the horns were passed on to close friends, children and family members and kept as keepsakes. Some were probably sold to collectors and museums over the years. I'm sure that there are others around that may have at one time been owned by one of the greats, but unfortunately, it would be very hard to prove who the sax really belonged to. I've said a few times that when I die, I plan on taking my Conn 10M to the grave with me, but I would be far happier passing it on to one of my children, or a close friend who would either play it and enjoy it, or at least have it as a reminder of me, and something that has always been a very important part of my life; my music. Jim

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        1. by landrusax
          (44 posts)

          18 years ago

          Re: Where are all their Saxes now?

          Helo, I saw an aucton about a year and a half ago that sold some of these horns in New York. I can'r remember the name of the auction company, Sotherbies? My buddy has a catalog of all the instuments that went up for auction and I rember that Birds King super 20 sold for over $100,000 and Coltrane's soprano sold for $75,000 (his tenor is being played by his son Ravi Coltrane). Two of Mulligan's baritones went for around $50,000 each. Dolphy's alto, bass clarinet and flute were sold but I cant remember the price. Dizzy's trumpet was sold and bunch of other horns that I thought should never be sold but you never know the situation of the families. If I remember correctly, the were all sold by the families of the players. Its sad that these horns may never be played again.

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          1. by bobafifi
            (1 post)

            17 years ago

            Re: Where are all their Saxes now?

            > Dolphy's alto, bass clarinet and flute were sold but I cant remember the price. Someone is supposedly selling Dolphy's flute on eBay: www.fluteplayer.net

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          2. by barisax999
            (400 posts)

            18 years ago

            Re: Where are all their Saxes now?

            that is the true tragedy, horns being held simply for collecting purposes. horns dont belong kept in cases or behind glass. they belong in the hands of somebody making music. i already have made the arrangements that if something were to happen to me that my horns would be passed on and played.... and im in college. the thought of my horns being shoved in a closet makes me ache.

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          3. by saxismyaxe
            (575 posts)

            18 years ago

            Re: Where are all their Saxes now?

            Bird's Super 20 went to the Jazz/Blues museum in Kansas City, and Don Byas's Dolnet tenor, as well as Ben Webster's last Selmer Tenor (not the one he gave Dexter Gordon when Dexter's 10M was stolen in Paris) are in museums as well. Most of these high dollar, prestigious pedigreed horns end up in museums and public collections. Frankly, although I am by no means an old fogie (sic) when it comes to each generation of musicians, there aren't but a mere handful of players currently who can measure up to the old lions and are therefor worthy of playing these historic saxes IMHO. I'd rather see them rest with the memories of the geniuses who last played them.

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        2. by Roccosm
          (113 posts)

          18 years ago

          Re: Where are all their Saxes now?

          I am 2 month's late ion this post , but I know that Phil Wood's married Charlie parker's Wife and I beleive Mr. Wood's got His horn. But some of the guy's mentioned probably had their Horn's in Pond.

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        3. by Bebopper57
          (3 posts)

          17 years ago

          Re: Where are all their Saxes now?

          It been some time since I first posted my question, "Where are all the Saxs now?" I'm totally impressed with the outpouring of responses. Wouldn't it be nice if someone created a clearing house for these instruments? A way that professional musians could register their instrument (s) so their where-abouts could be traced and/or their ownership confirmed. I believe the value would undoutfully increase with a positive confirmation of ownership. What do you guys think?

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        4. by cuber
          (653 posts)

          16 years ago

          Re: Where are all their Saxes now?

          for the 2 other mulligan fans out there, im sure he played on a holton some time during his life, but he is famous for playing 2 12m's, one of them is in the smithsonian, if you get a signed letter from your congressman they will let you play it, dont know if it was his main or recording horn

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        5. by Bebopper57
          (3 posts)

          18 years ago

          Re: Where are all their Saxes now?

          I would like to thank all you members who replied to inquiry. It is truely a shame that some of these memory filled instruments did not end up in the hands of some future young Lion to continue the legacy. Sitting in some glass case in some museum or collector's trophy case is like a death sentence.

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        6. by kneejerk52
          (397 posts)

          18 years ago

          Re: Where are all their Saxes now?

          here's on for you, i heard Phil Woods who i was told was married to singer Kim Parker, birds daughter, had one of his. don't know if this is true but it makes sense doesen't it?

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          1. by swingstreet
            (315 posts)

            18 years ago

            Re: Where are all their Saxes now?

            Actually, Phil was married to Chan Parker, Bird's widow, and did have one of his horns, though I don't know which one. According to her, one day Phil said he was going out to get a pack of cigarettes and never returned. In a later interview, Phil admitted that he walked out on her. He never mentioned however, whether or not he still had Bird's horn. My guess is that Chan either kept it, or sold it, as she spent the rest of her life capitalizing on her relationship with Bird. I think that was one of the reasons Phil walked out on her. I wonder what happened to Bird's Conn 6M?

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            1. by Roccosm
              (113 posts)

              18 years ago

              Re: Where are all their Saxes now?

              Very interesting stuff, I never knew that He walked out on Her, because rumour has it that he married Her because of the Horn's, ( make's sense now) he idolized parker, Who doesent. HeY I had a friend that told His wife He was going after a loaf of bread, Ya He returned 2 Year's Later,

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          2. by saxismyaxe
            (575 posts)

            18 years ago

            Re: Where are all their Saxes now?

            Phil Woods was married to Chalie Parker's widowed mate/wife , Chan Parker, not his daughter.

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            1. by saxismyaxe
              (575 posts)

              18 years ago

              Re: Where are all their Saxes now?

              Wow, sorry swingstreet, and no, there isn't a an echo in here! This is a classic case of " jumping the gun" posting before reading all the replys. Sorry to be so slow on the trigger. ;)

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            2. by johnsonfromwisconsin
              (767 posts)

              18 years ago

              Re: Where are all their Saxes now?

              Phil Woods was married to Chalie Parker's widowed mate/wife , Chan Parker, not his daughter. Uh, isn't that the same as saying "Parker's Widow"?

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              1. by Stiles B
                (101 posts)

                18 years ago

                Re: Where are all their Saxes now?

                I don't know what happened to Bird's horn that Phil had, but I did get a chance to work on the one that he had hand selected from the Selmer Factory in Paris. The bell had been tweaked after a drop and required a gentle nudge to straighten out. Phil had a radio interview to do so he left it in my hands so I of course proceeded to play all the bad notes out of it til he came to pick it up for that evenings performance. He must have found my repair agreeable as he sent me an autographed CD of himself and Art Pepper with a little note saying that the horn sounded "hot". So..Ummm. Yeah.

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              2. by Mactenor
                (102 posts)

                18 years ago

                Re: Where are all their Saxes now?

                Didn`t Gerry Mulligan play a Holton Bari at one time? Mactenor

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            3. by saxismyaxe
              (575 posts)

              18 years ago

              Re: Where are all their Saxes now?

              Phil Woods was married to Charlie Parker's widowed mate/wife , Chan Parker, not his daughter. Uh, isn't that the same as saying "Parker's Widow"? Why yes it is Steve. However: A. I do not believe that Parker and Chan were actually legally married. B. It is NOT the same thing as "his daughter" which is what I was addressing. My reply was redundant none the less as I didn't read the response before posting my own.

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            4. by saxismyaxe
              (575 posts)

              18 years ago

              Re: Where are all their Saxes now?

              JFW, I just did a little snooping in my Jazz library and Chan was in fact Parker's common law wife as I suspected. I'm not certain how or why she was able to secure all of his worldly possessions (or what there was of them, considering his voracious drug habits) as such; but as others have mentioned, she did spend a lifetime mooching off of his fame.

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            5. by sslavoix
              (32 posts)

              16 years ago

              Re: Where are all their Saxes now?

              wait if chan had relations with bird and kept the sax and then went to parker does that mean parker could have had his conn or could have sold it>???? i may be dumb for this or suicidal but oh well

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            6. by Donnie The B
              (282 posts)

              16 years ago

              Re: Where are all their Saxes now?

              Maybe I misread, but it sounds like you think Bird and Charlie Parker are 2 different cats.

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